Rear end damage

[bigcat1185]

Ford literally allows you to go to a driving experience that has you launch the vehicle. I disagree. Ford is aware these vehicles are used for racing. What do you think “performance” entails, a few spirited drives to the grocery store? Anyways, Ford knows it is an issue and a weak spot and is attempting to address it, which is all we can ask of them.

 

[st8]

Ford literally allows you to go to a driving experience that has you launch the vehicle. I disagree. Ford is aware these vehicles are used for racing. What do you think “performance” entails, a few spirited drives to the grocery store? Anyways, Ford knows it is an issue and a weak spot and is attempting to address it, which is all we can ask of them.

Good point. While I haven’t gone yet to the driving experience, but isn’t it about them showing you how to push the vehicle to its limit in a safe matter? Like hey, you just bought a fast suv that we figure you’re going to driving aggressively. Come to our short quick school so you learn do it safely lol

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

... They wouldn’t have issued a recall if all the effected vehicles were tuned/modded. Ford would of just attributed it to that being the issue.

FORD issued the recall to prevent roll away in the statistically minuscule chance that a bolt would shear.

Add a tune to the vehicle and now you've multiplied that possibility immensely.

... I’m a firm believer that they started throwing in one-bolt subframes to keep the assembly line moving and some engineer figured there was enough of a safety margin to give it a thumbs up ...

Yes. No. Maybe.

The hard truth is that nobody outside of FORD really knows. It's all speculation.

The stuff of water cooler conversations ...

 

[Roostfactor]

New guy here and first post on this forum.

Warning, long read.

This is absolutely ridiculous from Ford!
Last year I bought my mid life crisis ride. A 2021 Mustang GT that I just got done installing a supercharger on. Yep bye bye warranty and I knew that going in. I wanted and have built an amazingly fun and fast car to enjoy knowing I'm on my own if something breaks.

Last week I put a deposit down on a Carbonized gray awd ST for the wife mainly after 3 minivans over 21 years.
The idea is to have a fun RELIABLE awd vehicle to use as a daily and to travel with not worrying as much about the weather wherever we may go.

I am retired Air Force C-130 engine/propeller mechanic and lifelong gearhead/tinkerer. I read every post of these 31 pages and am in disbelief of the way this is unfolding!

Ford engineered there to be 4 bolts holding the diff on the higher hp models. It should stay that way. Realistically they probably would save money by having all the subframes 4 bolt because the same part could be used on all platforms (minus the Lincoln due to different suspension). Think about it, fewer part #s, less storage, easier accountability, less potential for installing wrong parts, etc. For what can't be more than $50 Ford cost per vehicle. That may dig into their profit by what .001%? What happened to quality is job 1?

You dont design an automotive part to borderline specs, you design it to handle the worse abuse possible for STOCK conditions. If a tune puts this part over the limit then the margin is not enough period and could be easily resolved at oem level.

I understand vehicles are not designed to the same specs as aircraft but I'm seriously upset with Ford on this!

Newer mustangs are running around reliably with 700rwh and we can't get a 4th bolt to hold the diff in an ST?
I have no plans to mod the ST except for a catch can, start/stop eliminator, maybe intercooler and a few dress up bits but I won't install a diff brace because 1. Ford could deny warranty because diff mounts were modded and 2. I shouldn't have to on a brand new $60,000 vehicle. I thought about drilling out the subframe and pressing in the mount myself but once again Ford could deny a claim for modding.

I'm seriously questioning going through with the purchase as having owned Toyota's and Hondas my entire adult life I've never been stranded!
I may tow with the ST. What do you think would happen if towing something downhill and the axles come out of the diff?
The big factor for me is I won't even know if I get the "correct" subframe til the vehicle arrives at my dealer so what to do?

Ford has really put everyone involved in a pickle on this one.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

Simple answer is you will not get the correct rear subframe. Once the change was made, all explorers going forward get the 1 bolt design.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

... If a tune puts this part over the limit then the margin is not enough period ...

What is the "margin" that should be allowed? 100 hp over stock? 250 hp over stock? 450 hp over stock? Things quickly become very arbitrary.

Newer mustangs are running around reliably with 700rwh and we can't get a 4th bolt to hold the diff in an ST?

If the Stangs are "newer", then we don't know their flaws yet.

Having been a Stang guy most my adult life and racing them, I recall their "World Class" T5 5 spd trans could barely take street play (much less racing). Ditto for their 7.5" rear, which I broke more times than I care to remember until I got underneath the car myself and installed the updated 8.8" rear. But those were older cars, right?

How about the MT-82 manual trans, which was universally panned by just about everyone (bent shift forks, broken shift forks, gears grinding, etc.).

Just putting things into perspective ...

 

[bigcat1185]

The 3 bolt rear end is clearly a weak spot on the vehicles. I drive all my vehicles extremely hard and things usually break, at which point I upgrade them to be more capable. The braces being produced seem to be doing their jobs for the most part, and I'm sure they will continue to improve themselves.

 

[TMac]

I would not hesitate to install the AWR brace. It's much easier and cheaper than the subframe. (Although I'd still like to see it extended to include another differential cover bolt) Given Ford's communication and fixes to the bolt, I really don't foresee any invalidations of warranty claims by purchasing some mechanical insurance.

In any case, if it breaks, Ford will fix it- of course if this is your only vehicle and you can't afford a couple of weeks downtime, then bear that in mind.

 

[Roostfactor]

What is the "margin" that should be allowed? 100 hp over stock? 250 hp over stock? 450 hp over stock? Things quickly become very arbitrary.



If the Stangs are "newer", then we don't know their flaws yet.

Having been a Stang guy most my adult life and racing them, I recall their "World Class" T5 5 spd trans could barely take street play (much less racing). Ditto for their 7.5" rear, which I broke more times than I care to remember until I got underneath the car myself and installed the updated 8.8" rear. But those were older cars, right?

How about the MT-82 manual trans, which was universally panned by just about everyone (bent shift forks, broken shift forks, gears grinding, etc.).

Just putting things into perspective ...

I'm not an engineer but enough margin for the part not to fail in the stock configuration.
I'm sure many tools you use as a fireman have certain specs that must be met. What if a subpar part was introduced to the "jaws of life" and you didn't know it until needed. Then when trying to egress a victim the hinge pin breaks?

I mean the 2015+ Mustangs and you do have a good point with the mt82 trans when the Mach1 and Shelby's get the upgraded trans. It's a big part of the reason I went with the A10 trans.

 

[Roostfactor]

I would not hesitate to install the AWR brace. It's much easier and cheaper than the subframe. (Although I'd still like to see it extended to include another differential cover bolt) Given Ford's communication and fixes to the bolt, I really don't foresee any invalidations of warranty claims by purchasing some mechanical insurance.

In any case, if it breaks, Ford will fix it- of course if this is your only vehicle and you can't afford a couple of weeks downtime, then bear that in mind.

I hear ya and have an extra vehicle but as another person on here posted, I don't want to worry about it breaking late at night in bfe somewhere while on vacation for example.

Ford should have just 4 bolted all of them.

 

[TMac]

I hear ya and have an extra vehicle but as another person on here posted, I don't want to worry about it breaking late at night in bfe somewhere while on vacation for example.

Ford should have just 4 bolted all of them.

Agree. But they didn't. And they won't. For whatever reason: engineers miscalculated, a bad batch of bolts, sold more STs than expected, had to improvise during the pandemic, etc. All of these things have been debated ad infinitum on this forum. The fact remains- if you're worried about it breaking,especially if you're tuned, take some measure to mitigate damage. If you're not worried, do nothing. In either case, if it breaks, Ford will fix it within the warranty period.

 

[Roostfactor]

Agree. But they didn't. And they won't. For whatever reason: engineers miscalculated, a bad batch of bolts, sold more STs than expected and had to improvise during the pandemic. All of these things have been debated ad infinitum on this forum. The fact remains- if you're worried about it breaking, take some measure to mitigate damage. If you're not worried, do nothing. In either case, if it breaks, Ford will fix it within the warranty period.

Understood.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

I'm not an engineer but enough margin for the part not to fail in the stock configuration.
I'm sure many tools you use as a fireman have certain specs that must be met. What if a subpar part was introduced to the "jaws of life" and you didn't know it until needed. Then when trying to egress a victim the hinge pin breaks?

I mean the 2015+ Mustangs and you do have a good point with the mt82 trans when the Mach1 and Shelby's get the upgraded trans. It's a big part of the reason I went with the A10 trans.

And 99.9071% of the time (FORD's data) the part does not fail in stock configuration. Sounds about right to me for any part ever manufactured. And not just for First Responders, but for any other industry can a better % rate be expected. Nothing in this world is 100%, literally nothing. Perfection doesn't exist this side of paradise.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

The 3 bolt rear end is clearly a weak spot on the vehicles. I drive all my vehicles extremely hard and things usually break, at which point I upgrade them to be more capable. The braces being produced seem to be doing their jobs for the most part, and I'm sure they will continue to improve themselves.

What about Sstockss and the abuse he gave his 3 bolt in the "Abusing an Explorer ST for science" thread. Doesn't seem weak there ...

 

[boosted_st]

What about Sstockss and the abuse he gave his 3 bolt in the "Abusing an Explorer ST for science" thread. Doesn't seem weak there ...

The plastics on the steering wheel and dash are the matte finish which only was on the 2020 model, they switched to the gloss black for 2021, so the one you are referring to would have had the 4 bolt.

 

[Jeppo]

I spent most of last week at a convention. As the hotel display ballroom contained countless items of tremendous value and attractiveness to criminals, that room was guarded 24/7 by off duty Sheriff deputies. To get the message to potential thieves, they parked their PI Explorers right outside the only entrance to that ballroom.

I crawled under 3 or 4 of them (21s and 22s) and none had the fourth bolt. Explaining why I wanted to crawl under their vehicles, not one had heard of the recall. Imagine how many of these Ford will be fixing.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

The plastics on the steering wheel and dash are the matte finish which only was on the 2020 model, they switched to the gloss black for 2021, so the one you are referring to would have had the 4 bolt.

That observation must be flawed. He specifically stated it was a 1 (3) bolt.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

The plastics on the steering wheel and dash are the matte finish which only was on the 2020 model, they switched to the gloss black for 2021, so the one you are referring to would have had the 4 bolt.

FOLLOW UP:

I just asked Sstockss for a clarification on his reply that he had the 1 bolt.

Awaiting his response, I went to his YT vid and searched through the responses where he indicates his build date was 11/19 making it a 2020 model:



Which would still fall under the recall date parameters:



We'll have to wait and see what he says ...

 

[Explorer22ST]

FOLLOW UP:

I just asked Sstockss for a clarification on his reply that he had the 1 bolt.

Awaiting his response, I went to his YT vid and searched through the responses where he indicates his build date was 11/19 making it a 2020 model:

View attachment 13039

Which would still fall under the recall date parameters:

View attachment 13040

We'll have to wait and see what he says ...

Based on the document above, what type rear axle bolt configuration will the ST's have when built AFTER April 11,2022? Is Ford adding back the additional axle bolt?

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

Based on the document above, what type rear axle bolt configuration will the ST's have when built AFTER April 11,2022? Is Ford adding back the additional axle bolt?

Honestly, I don't have a clue.