Audio System Overhaul

[UNBROKEN]

I noticed that I could only find a 6 channel version when looking recently. Strangely enough, it doesn't look like the part number is different, only the provided harness. Sadly, it doesn't look like they are discounting the device with the reduced channel count.

In any case, I'd think having 4 channels is really the most you'd need if you are going with an external DSP solution like you've spec'd out.

Just get a dsp that takes optical in and forget the RCA’s. You wind up with too many digital to analog and analog to digital conversions in the signal chain…then the audio is degraded.
In this car if you use optical to a dsp you maintain a digital signal chain all from the HU to the processor. If you use a good dsp amp you’ll never even need an RCA.

 

[UNBROKEN]

I'm going to be using the onboard DSP in the Alpine Amp and a AudioControl DM-RTA Pro Kit to dial it in.. I'll be splitting two of the six channels to make 8 going into the amp. That way I can power all 14 speakers like I wanted.
1- FR
2- FL
3- RR
4- R D Pillar
5- RL
6- L D Pillar
7- Dash
8- Subwoofer

So quasi-active. There’s really no reason to RTA that…you’ll still have the passive XO’s in place so you won’t be able to set TA or phase. For everything else just set the high and low pass filters and hope it sounds half way decent.
I really don’t understand the reasoning behind keeping 14 speakers…it’s pretty pointless. More doesn’t equal better…it only makes things harder to tune and make cohesive. I’ve been doing high end car audio for decades…this recipe isn’t making much sense.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

You're right! I was reaching for something that's just not there. I was thinking the dash and D pillar speakers would add something but it's just not going to work. Not unless I ran multiple amps and put each speaker on it's own channel. Like you said, it just makes it more complicated and harder to tune. I just wanted to upgrade what's there with something better hoping it would sound better. I've done a lot of systems myself but nothing like this system. I'm an ameture! I've never had to deal with a factory amp or anything like the Sync3. I haven't done anything like this in about 20 years either and a lot has changed! The last good system I did was in my 1993 Ford Escort. I used A/D/S 236is components in the doors, can't remember what I used in the back but they were also A/D/S, 2 Lanzar KH12 and an A/D/S PH15 6-Channel amp to power it all. The HU was an Alpine CD player. That was high end back then! So I think I'm just going to listen to the professionals and keep it simple. Front doors, back doors and a sub.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

I’ve been doing high end car audio for decades…this recipe isn’t making much sense.

I realise you are levels above me in car audio. Let's say I came to you to put a system together for me to go in this vehicle, what would you use? I have a budget of about $6k and I want it loud.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

New plan. Going to use a Toslink out of the ZEN, as suggested, to an ArcAudio Blackbird to actively power the front door 3-ways individually, passively power the rear door 2-ways, come out channels 9 & 10 into an ArcAudio Nighthawk to power an Alpine 12" sub. I'm ditching the dash and D-pillar speakers as suggested. I don't know much about ArcAudio but from what I've read, they seem to be a reputable amp. This should get me to where I want to be and be better to tune. What do you think?

 

[UNBROKEN]

I think you’re on a much better path.

 

[banniar]

New plan. Going to use a Toslink out of the ZEN, as suggested, to an ArcAudio Blackbird to actively power the front door 3-ways individually, passively power the rear door 2-ways, come out channels 9 & 10 into an ArcAudio Nighthawk to power an Alpine 12" sub. I'm ditching the dash and D-pillar speakers as suggested. I don't know much about ArcAudio but from what I've read, they seem to be a reputable amp. This should get me to where I want to be and be better to tune. What do you think?

I stumbled across the Blackbird after reading this thread the other day and was contemplating something very similar. Very much looking forward to updates on this.

After reading other advise from @UNBROKEN, my path forward would be heavy investment in sound dampening along with the Zen & Blackbird into the stock door speakers and my existing amp/sub combo. This would get rid of my issue with bass falling out at high volumes and have the touted benefits that come with road noise and vibration/resonance reductions.

 

[UNBROKEN]

I stumbled across the Blackbird after reading this thread the other day and was contemplating something very similar. Very much looking forward to updates on this.

After reading other advise from @UNBROKEN, my path forward would be heavy investment in sound dampening along with the Zen & Blackbird into the stock door speakers and my existing amp/sub combo. This would get rid of my issue with bass falling out at high volumes and have the touted benefits that come with road noise and vibration/resonance reductions.

If you want a Zen buy it now. They left the aftermarket interface game last week to focus on DoD stuff. Whatever is in stock somewhere is all there will ever be. That surprised everybody.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

Yep, and only the 6 channels are left. I spoke with them last week. Though that doesn’t matter if you get an amp with a digital input like the Blackbird.


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[UNBROKEN]

Yep, and only the 6 channels are left. I spoke with them last week. Though that doesn’t matter if you get an amp with a digital input like the Blackbird.


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6 channels in is more than anyone needs. 8 is virtually pointless. The best DSP’s on the planet only have 6 RCA inputs. Anything worth using should be using optical in anyway. A secondary benefit in addition to the clean signal is you won’t clip the input side of the dsp. You have 100% of your volume knob to play with.

 

[banniar]

If you want a Zen buy it now. They left the aftermarket interface game last week to focus on DoD stuff. Whatever is in stock somewhere is all there will ever be. That surprised everybody.

Thanks for the heads up. I just put one on order.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

So my ArcAudio order got cancelled for some reason. I suspect my cc company declined the payment thinking it was fraud due to the amount. They usually send me a text though. Someone recommended using a Mosconi One 8/10 DSP instead of the Blackbird but I can't seem to find one. The only place I can find it is on their website but you can't buy them from there. Doing a Google search only brings up the Mosconi Pico 8/10 but it's not the same amp. I like the Mosconi because it produce 100W from all 8 channels and has RCA outputs to go to another amp. Anyone know where I can find one?

 

[UNBROKEN]

You will need an authorized dealer for anything Mosconi/Focal/Illusion or anything else Orca Design brings in or makes. There are no online sales allowed so if you find something online you will have no warranty or support if there’s an issue.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

I found two places online that sell them, CreativeAudio and WoofersEtc. Neither of them have the amp I'm looking for but the other products come with a one year warranty. It must be for in-house warranty work though and not through Mosconi. I did find a dealer about 45 miles away so maybe I'll take a ride up there and see what they have.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

I finally got my system down to what I want and then I hear about the mObridge A2B amp! I read up on it and it sounds like what I wanted from the start; just more volume and bass. Anyone have any experience with this? I don't know if it would be plug & play for my system either. I've emailed them to find out if it is compatible with the 14-speaker system or only the 10-speaker system. Not that I need all 14 speakers but I'm thinking the harness might not match up. If they tell me it will work ok I might seriously consider it, unless I get some negative feed back. The person who told me about it is putting one in to replace a ZEN A2B that needs to go in for RMA work. Once I hear how he made out and whether or not it will work for me I'll decide. The Mosconi ONE 8/10 I'm getting is almost $2k alone. This is only $1,479. Where it has a pre out for an additional subwoofer I couls still use the PRO 1/10 and add the sub.

 

[UNBROKEN]

Daryl already told you over there he’s not using the same one you’re talking about. He runs a Helix DSP and only needs the interface. He sent his Nav in and replaced it with the MoBridge trying to chase a noise issue in his car.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

Correct. But I wasn't planning on running a stand alone DSP. I planned to come out of the ZEN right to the DSP amplifier. After reading his first post I just Googled "mObridge A2B" and found the amplifier. At that point I did not know he was only using the interface. I posted here before he replied and explained what he was using. I was just looking for some feedback here about the A2B amplifier if anyone had used it. Like I said in my original post, I'm only looking for a little more headroom and bottom end. This sounds like it might just do the trick and save me a lot of money. Mobridge has since replied to my post over there and said I would have a 30 day warranty to try it and see if I like it. I think that is pretty cool because most of the time companies won't take back electronics once they have been installed. Makes me think they have a lot of faith in their product. I think I'm going to go with it and see how it performs. If it get's me to where I want to be, I'll keep it. If not, I'll return it and go back to my original plan.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

I figured I would update this since a lot has changed. I am one week out from having my system installed and the transmission shit the bed! Now the vehicle is tied up at the dealer for who knows how long. So now it won't be until after the first of the year. It should be worth the wait though. I ended up sticking with all Alpine equipment except for the NAV. I got the chance to hear the Status speakers powered by their Optim8 amp in the reps car and it sounded great.

 

[Mikes 22St]

I’ll check them out. He said he could give me the Alpines 3-ways for $700, the 2-ways for $500 and the amp for $725. I’ll ask him about the Focals though because I like Focal stuff. I like my bass to be more of a “thump” as opposed to a “boom”, if that makes sense. He’s also telling me I need to run more than one amp because the B&O is a 10 channel. All I know is this is getting to be a real PITA to figure out. If the amp is a 10-channel, I need to figure out what channels go to what speakers. Or just run an 8 channel, a four channel and a mono to put each speaker on its own channel.


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Browse, hey man I dont know if this would even help but I camt across this awhile ago and it may have been from one of u 2 . But felt it may help ya

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

FINALLY!! I'm up next. Vehicle goes in tomorrow to get get the system installed. He said he would need it for a week at least. The weather finally broke here so windows are down and volume is up!