Called Out On Tune

[BrooseDaMoose]

I just talked to the service manager at the dealership that is fixing my ST. I took it in because I was getting the 4WD faults and a C00A6 - 4WD/AWD Transfer Case Unit Actuator code stating Actuator Stuck. He asked me "which tune are you using". I played dumb and said I didn't know what he was talking about. He told me there has been 8 "Key Cycles" since the last time they had it and that means I am using a tune. Huh? I returned the vehicle to stock last Friday, knowing it was going in on Monday, and put at least a couple hundred miles on it! I don't see how there could possibly be 8 Key Cycles. I asked him if using FORScan would cause them but he didn't know what that was. I explained to him what FORScan is and that I had used it to read the DTC's and also to make some changes like having the foglights stay on when the high beams are on. He said that may have cause them and then went on to tell me how dangerous it was to use and if Ford knew about it they would void my warranty. He also mentioned that the cats are not Ford parts and could also void my warranty. When I go in to pick up the vehicle I'm going to ask him about the Ford Performance tune and see if he even knows about it. I never used it over the weekend but does using FORScan create a key cycle each time you use it? Is there a way to clear them?

 

[Cdubya]

a key cycle is just the count of how many times you start the car. In a 3 day period, 8 sounds about right. Count is reset when you flash a tune. So instead of several hundred key cycles, you only have 8; they already know you are running a tune. I wouldn't lie about it. Personally, you should have just kept the tune on there and just said yes if they asked about it. It would be up to them to prove damage was caused by the tune. Now they think you're trying to hide the fact that it's tuned.

My feeling is they may have done work under warranty that wasn't the problem and after replacement of a number of items you still have issues and Ford may reject even more warranty work. What are the odds so many components in your drivetrain failed? Not likely.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

a key cycle is just the count of how many times you start the car. In a 3 day period, 8 sounds about right. Count is reset when you flash a tune. So instead of several hundred key cycles, you only have 8, they already know you are running a tune. I wouldn't lie about it. Personally, you should have just kept the tune on there and just said yes if they asked about it. It would be up to them to prove damage was caused by the tune. Now they think you're trying to hide the fact that it's tuned.

My feeling is they may have done work under warranty that wasn't the problem and after replacement of a number of items you still have issues and Ford may reject even more warranty work. What are the odds so many components in your drivetrain failed? Not likely.

That's what I though! Each time you start the vehicle it counts a key cycle. He made it sound like 8 key cycles was a lot so I was confused. As for keeping the tune on there, I've always detuned my vehicle before bringing it in for service or a sticker. I just think it would be harder for them to deny warranty work if there is no tune. I know they can dig and tell if the vehicle was ever tuned but they can't tell when. The previous owner could have had a tuner. But I respect what you say and how you feel!

I don't follow you about the warranty work. They haven't rejected any work. The only thing that was covered is the front axle and they replaced it.

 

[Cruising68]

[mention]Cdubya [/mention] has it correct. If they wanted to they could check also the tune chksum and verify if it was an oem tune or not.

Regarding returning to stock, it’s not hard for them to figure it out then you have to explain. I go in assuming I could lose drivetrain warranty so I try to have a good relationship with a service writer and mechanic and I will tip them both if I get good service. I also negotiate a discount on parts and buy all oem there. If it ever hits the fan I have always received reasonable service. Replace a blown engine, no, but I have got plenty of drivetrain items fixed over the years on modded vehicles.


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[Cdubya]

I don't follow you about the warranty work. They haven't rejected any work. The only thing that was covered is the front axle and they replaced it.

They haven't rejected any warranty work...YET. But now they are saying the problem is the rear differential and will or have submitted warranty approval for that when it's the same symptom and codes you've had all along?! Ford may reject that,. Not because of your tune but because your dealer has a shotgun mentality to solving problems. They will say its because of the tune though!

FYI:. Another user had reported a bunch of similar AWD codes...it ended up being his transfer case but initially, his dealer was thinking awd module, hub actuator and speed sensor too.

 

[GearHead_1]

Did your dealer realize that you have had the rear end modified?

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

They haven't rejected any warranty work...YET. But now they are saying the problem is the rear differential and will or have submitted warranty approval for that when it's the same symptom and codes you've had all along?! Ford may reject that,. Not because of your tune but because your dealer has a shotgun mentality to solving problems. They will say its because of the tune though!

FYI:. Another user had reported a bunch of similar AWD codes...it ended up being his transfer case but initially, his dealer was thinking awd module, hub actuator and speed sensor too.

The work for the differential has already been approved. They fixed everything else. I couldn't get an answer about the Actuator Stuck issue. Personally I think it was the issue all along. The vehicle drove home fine. He also wouldn't go into specifics about the differential. I don't know why but he seemed to be in a hurry. When I asked him about the tune and voiding the warranty, he just waved me off and said, "if I had a dime for evry car that comes in here with modifications. . . ." so I don't think he cares. He (the service manager) has been ok to deal with. It was the service writer behind the counter who gave me the hard time.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

Did your dealer realize that you have had the rear end modified?

He didn't say anything about it. They may not have noticed it or just didn't care.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

I had to bring my vehicle back in because the transmission failed! I knew there was something wrong so I've been babying the thing! Now the service manager is telling me there's only seven key cycles this time and Ford is aware of it. He is saying they are denying any warranty work because of that. I guess it’s automatically a red flag that you’re using a tune. He told me he may be able to get some of it covered but won’t know until they get into it and see what failed. That sounds a little sketchy to me. If Ford is denying the warranty, why would they come back and say, “We’ll cover half of it” when they have already denied it? I’m thinking he knows about the key cycles, knows I’m using a tune but can’t prove it and is just trying to scare me. Either that or he wants to wait until they get the transmission out and apart to say he can’t get it covered so then I’ll have to let them fix it. Either way, I knew using a tune would void the warranty if they found out so I can’t bitch because I have to eat the cost. That’s just the price we pay! One thing I’ve learned though is to just leave the tune in it when taking it in for service because if they see the key cycles are low they automatically red flag the vehicle.


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[bluesnake01]

I had to bring my vehicle back in because the transmission failed and now the service manager is telling me Ford is aware of there only being five key cycles. He is saying they are denying any warranty work because of that. It’s automatically a red flag that you’re using a tune. He told me he may be able to get some of it covered but won’t know until they get into it and see what failed. That sounds a little sketchy to me. If Ford is denying the warranty, why would they come back and say, “We’ll cover half of it” when they have already denied it? I’m thinking he knows about the key cycles, knows I’m using a tune but can’t prove it and is just trying to scare me. Either that or he wants to wait until they get the transmission out and apart to say he can’t get it covered so then I’ll have to let them fix it. Either way, I knew using a tune would void the warranty if they found out so I can’t bitch because I have to eat the cost. That’s just the price we pay! One thing I’ve learned though is to just leave the tune in it when taking it in for service because if they see the key cycles are low they automatically red flag the vehicle.


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A dead battery can also reset the key cycles.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

I asked about that and was told it's part of the KAM so unhooking the battery won't reset them. I'm wondering if doing an update will reset the key cycles. I know they did an update because the Parking Brake never set automatically until after it was in for service. That would explain the seven key cycles since that's about how many times I've driven it since getting it back from them.

 

[bluesnake01]

I asked about that and was told it's part of the KAM so unhooking the battery won't reset them. I'm wondering if doing an update will reset the key cycles. I know the did an update because the Parking Brake never set automatically until after it was in for service.

It actually would reset them, however, it throws a code to the PCM when the KAM get's reset which in your case is a lil too late for that.

A dead battery though can do the trick, there's tricks to how to reset the KAM with a dead battery.

Regardless, you should still fight for it if the tune wasnt the reason for. the work needed.

 

[Cdubya]

A dead battery can also reset the key cycles.

Do you have a reference for this? I looked at "ignition cycle counter" using my OBDLink app and it says 1825, despite unplugging the negative terminal of my battery just last week.

 

[bluesnake01]

Do you have a reference for this? I looked at "ignition cycle counter" using my OBDLink app and it says 1825, despite unplugging the negative terminal of my battery just last week.

Unplug the negative terminal, turn the lights on manually for 20 or so min I believe. It will discharge the leftover from the PCM.

 

[Cruising68]

On a side note, I believe Ford has some customer loyalty/satisfaction programs. This is why even though they may deny warranty they may help with the expense.

To be honest, I would push the issue that it happened immediately after a tranny service. You might be surprised at their contribution to the repair….hopefully.


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[ridered74]

I had to bring my vehicle back in because the transmission failed and now the service manager is telling me Ford is aware of there only being five key cycles. He is saying they are denying any warranty work because of that. It’s automatically a red flag that you’re using a tune. He told me he may be able to get some of it covered but won’t know until they get into it and see what failed. That sounds a little sketchy to me. If Ford is denying the warranty, why would they come back and say, “We’ll cover half of it” when they have already denied it? I’m thinking he knows about the key cycles, knows I’m using a tune but can’t prove it and is just trying to scare me. Either that or he wants to wait until they get the transmission out and apart to say he can’t get it covered so then I’ll have to let them fix it. Either way, I knew using a tune would void the warranty if they found out so I can’t bitch because I have to eat the cost. That’s just the price we pay! One thing I’ve learned though is to just leave the tune in it when taking it in for service because if they see the key cycles are low they automatically red flag the vehicle.


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Them plugging in their diagnostic tool to the odb and not being able to read the strategy code because of the tune would be an even bigger red flag than the key cycles.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

The lessons learned here are 1. Expect to pay out of pocket for repairs if you’re going to run a tune and 2. Don’t return the vehicle to stock when bringing it in for service. Unfortunately I did not know about the key cycles so. Had I left the tune in it at the begining they may not have even noticed it.


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[Cdubya]

Unplug the negative terminal, turn the lights on manually for 20 or so min I believe. It will discharge the leftover from the PCM.

Ignition cycle counter does not reset. Was 1825 last I checked. Now 1840 immediately after unplugging negative terminal for 30 minutes. There is no "turn lights on manually"...the headlight switch has no power.

 

[SimonsGTS]

Ignition cycle counter does not reset. Was 1825 last I checked. Now 1840 immediately after unplugging negative terminal for 30 minutes. There is no "turn lights on manually"...the headlight switch has no power.

Since there's no power to the headlight switch connect a 12v test light between the battery terminals after disconnecting the battery. Let it sit long enough to drain the capacitors, about 30 minutes should be good.

 

[bluesnake01]

Ignition cycle counter does not reset. Was 1825 last I checked. Now 1840 immediately after unplugging negative terminal for 30 minutes. There is no "turn lights on manually"...the headlight switch has no power.

What @SimonsGTS said and/or press the brake pedal see if the brake lights turn on.