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Mercon ULV ATF vs Amsoil SS Transmission Fluid

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#1
Posting this not to shame or bash, but so that people will have the information they need to make their own informed decision.

It seems Amsoil is a VERY popular product with these vehicles. I myself have been using their products in all my stuff for years now with zero issues. However, when it comes to the 10R60 and 10R80 transmissions, and anything else calling for a ULV fluid, I wanted to bring something very important to light

I'm a big advocate of Amsoil. I use it like Frank's Red Hot; I put that shit in everything. However as much as I hate to say this, Amsoil Fuel Efficient (Product code ATL with the BLUE cap) signature series ATF is NOT properly spec'd for use in transmissions that call for a ULV fluid. In fact, Amsoil just flat out doesn't have a proper ULV certified ATF in their inventory. I know there's lots of people out there who use it in the 10R60/10R80 transmissions and had what they feel was a positive experience, especially in this group. However I am also finding lots of feedback on various forums for both Ford and GM based transmissions where people complained about heavier, "bulkier" shifts (Harder shifts do not automatically translate to "better" shifts) as well as other detrimental behavior and ended up going back to a ULV.

Amsoil and their dealers will tell you the ATL is OK to use in these transmissions, however that does not change the fact that it has a considerable difference in viscosity.

Mercon ULV viscosity = 4.5cst @ 100C (19.2cst @40C)
Amsoil SS FE ATF = 6.3cst @ 100C (30.8cst @40C)


Simply put, you would have to run the Amsoil SS 15-20F hotter for the same viscosity at a given point that your ULV would supposedly be at. This probably isn't a very big deal once the fluid is up to operating temp, and might even be somewhat beneficial to people who like to run their vehicles hard. But the shift programming is still going to be calibrated (optimally) for the ULV viscosity to temperature relation. The biggest concern, is that the ATF is going to be thicker, more resistant to flow and yield higher line pressures (Pressure = resistance to flow; higher oil/line pressure is NOT always a good thing) when cold while coming up to operating temp. Especially for those of us who operate our vehicles year round in cold climates.

This would be about the ATF equivalent of running a heavier weight engine oil than called for, which should only be done under extreme circumstances (Hard competition use, such as road racing where the oil is continuously operated at higher than normal temps). Obviously people aren't going to be starting those types of vehicles in their driveway when it's 20F outside and going to the store for milk and bread (or at least they shouldn't be). Viscosity is primarily based and chosen on tolerances and bearing clearances, and the principle is no different in a transmission. In fact, it is ESPECIALLY important in an automatic transmission where more viscosity is going to be reducing flow through all those tiny little passages.

Amsoil and alot of their dealers will rebuttal with sales jargon and tell you it's OK to use, as well as the factory fluid being the wrong viscosity. But that's a particularly bold claim that engineers working for two of the largest auto manufacturers in the United States don't know any better over a salesman maintaining a side hustle. They engineered these units to be more efficient and designed the fluid to those specifications.

Your ride and your call, but personally, I'll wait until Amsoil comes out with a properly spec'd fluid before I dump it in anything calling for a ULV.
 

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UNBROKEN

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FYI he’ll ban you for things you say outside of his group too. lol
 

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FYI he’ll ban you for things you say outside of his group too. lol
Don't forget how many profiles I have LOL.

I'm not trying to bash or name drop anyone. Just give others the CORRECT information so that they can decide for themselves.
 

F=MA

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I have managed to avoid Amsoil products my entire adult life. The multi-layered influencers over on Facebook put on an entertaining show though. Determined I will stick with the OEM stuff so the dealership doesn't have another weapon to use against me if the tranny goes south.
 

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I have managed to avoid Amsoil products my entire adult life. The multi-layered influencers over on Facebook put on an entertaining show though. Determined I will stick with the OEM stuff so the dealership doesn't have another weapon to use against me if the tranny goes south.
There's definitely better products out there than Motorcraft, but with the correct viscosity.
 

Cruising68

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Transmissions are funny. Some are not particular about oem oil, others are very particular. My wife’s MB and two daughters Hondas get oem only. For the ST I haven’t found an alternative to the ULV so I just change it more frequently.

Would love to hear of alternatives in a full synthetic with the right specs


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Transmissions are funny. Some are not particular about oem oil, others are very particular. My wife’s MB and two daughters Hondas get oem only. For the ST I haven’t found an alternative to the ULV so I just change it more frequently.

Would love to hear of alternatives in a full synthetic with the right specs


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Someone posted one a few clicks above with the correct viscosity. Also, Valvoline makes a full synthetic ULV with the correct viscosities. I'm also a personal fan of using Lubegard red. I've had good results with everything I've put it in.

I'm not saying that Amsoil is a bad product, I'm saying that currently, they do not have anything correctly spec'd for a ULV fluid despite claiming that their "Fuel Efficient" LV certified ATF is also acceptable for use in ULV transmissions.
 

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Someone posted one a few clicks above with the correct viscosity. Also, Valvoline makes a full synthetic ULV with the correct viscosities. I'm also a personal fan of using Lubegard red. I've had good results with everything I've put it in.

I'm not saying that Amsoil is a bad product, I'm saying that currently, they do not have anything correctly spec'd for a ULV fluid despite claiming that their "Fuel Efficient" LV certified ATF is also acceptable for use in ULV transmissions.
And with the amount of people that got their panties in a bunch about the Ford Performance tune and keeping their warranty I wonder how many threw in a non spec fluid because some guy pulled up to their house and did a spill and fill..... I really hope their transmissions hold up but if a bunch start blowing up and Ford starts running a fluid analysis there are going to be a lot of pissed off people..... When I had my XFR I had to run a certain type of oil because Jag spec'd a dye in it and would deny warranty claims if you were caught not using and then you have the whole Dexos thing with GM.....

When I changed my fluid over the summer I used Valvoline ULV instead of the OEM fluid.
 

Cruising68

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Good to know, thanks. When my case of motorcraft is done I will likely give that a shot.


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And with the amount of people that got their panties in a bunch about the Ford Performance tune and keeping their warranty I wonder how many threw in a non spec fluid because some guy pulled up to their house and did a spill and fill..... I really hope their transmissions hold up but if a bunch start blowing up and Ford starts running a fluid analysis there are going to be a lot of pissed off people....

Ooooof. Definitely got the reference lol. You're right though. I'm sure it will work "good enough" for now. But we haven't had nearly enough time to establish failure rates and start connecting the dots.

When I changed my fluid over the summer I used Valvoline ULV instead of the OEM fluid
I actually just finished picking up 6qts of that exact same fluid from my local Advance Auto. $12/qt. Normally $19/qt from them but it helps when you're friends with the General Manager from your previous life as the commercial parts manager

Interestingly enough though, it appears you CAN use Amsoil blue cap ATF in the transfer case, as it calls for LV rated fluid, which is the same viscosity as the Amsoil FE SS. I'm all for Amsoil and better products in general but NOT the incorrect specifications no matter how good the product is.
 

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BrooseDaMoose

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This may be a dumb question but I don't know the answer so it's not dumb to me. LOL I just had my transmission service at the dealer and the service sheet states, "Exchange with BG synthetic transmission fluid". What is BG? Is that just OEM?
 

GearHead_1

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It's nothing unusual, BG is an aftermarket brand that sells in bulk to repair shops. I've heard that the "BG" stands for Bearing and Gear but also have been told that this is the initials of the last names of a couple of the earlier founders. They used to be tied to Wynns' oil if I remember correctly.

If it meets Ford's specs it should be just fine. It is interesting that Ford isn't using the Motorcraft product.

BG also advertises flushes for both transmissions and engines. I don't know what is involved but it may be both product and machine.
 

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BrooseDaMoose

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It's nothing unusual, BG is an aftermarket brand that sells in bulk to repair shops. I've heard that the "BG" stands for Bearing and Gear but also have been told that this is the initials of the last names of a couple of the earlier founders. They used to be tied to Wynns' oil if I remember correctly.

If it meets Ford's specs it should be just fine. It is interesting that Ford isn't using the Motorcraft product.

BG also advertises flushes for both transmissions and engines. I don't know what is involved but it may be both product and machine.
Interesting! Thank you! It is strange they don't use Motorcraft. Next time the service guy wants to make a comment about my "Non-OEM parts" I'll toss this at him. LOL! :LOL:
 

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I just don’t understand the spill n fill guys using Amsoil but only technically swapping about 1/3 of the fluid in the system. Like…WTF is the point?
 

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I just don’t understand the spill n fill guys using Amsoil but only technically swapping about 1/3 of the fluid in the system. Like…WTF is the point?
Did a full pan swap on mine. Let it bleed out into the drain pan for a good hour. Almost another full quart came out of the pump when I yanked the filter.

I added 8 quarts of Valvoline ULV + a 10oz bottle of Lubegard red and ended up overfilled. Had to drain one quart out to get the correct level (Yay for drain plug) and the fluid was still noticably brown from combining with the rest of the old crap still in the converter and cooler/lines.
 

Cruising68

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That’s why I do a double drain and fill after driving for a few days.


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That’s why I do a double drain and fill after driving for a few days.


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Thinking of this myself after I recover from that extremely frustrating fill process lol
 

Cruising68

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Thinking of this myself after I recover from that extremely frustrating fill process lol
I like the old days with a dipstick in the engine compartment. My Ctsv had similar fill but right next to the header. Never got the trans fluid changed without burning the shit out of the back of my hand. I bought a vacuum evacuator to make the second time easier on my ST. At least I don’t need to change the filter for the second change.


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I like the old days with a dipstick in the engine compartment. My Ctsv had similar fill but right next to the header. Never got the trans fluid changed without burning the shit out of the back of my hand. I bought a vacuum evacuator to make the second time easier on my ST. At least I don’t need to change the filter for the second change.


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Hey that sounds very similar to burning my arm on the Explorer exhaust

I have to say this is the first vehicle I've ever owned that has had this level of dumb-assery with the transmission fill. I generally hold onto vehicles long term. My first car was an '85 Z28 I bought when I was 20 years old. I still have that car to this day, albeit nowhere near stock. Still have my '04 Denali as well. Even my '17 Sport (RIP), with the dipstick hidden under the air box, was a walk in the park compared to this nonsense.

In fact, part of the reason I even upgraded the pan was to add an easy method on draining the fluid. The other part was for added cooling capacity, although I understand these transmissions are thermostatically controlled and it won't cool below the minimum thermostat temp.
 

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