Additional Tune

When I bought my ZFG tune I got it for 91 because no one had 93 around here. Now there are two stations that have 93 so I wanted to update my tune to 93. However, Adam said I would have to get an additional tune which is $350. He said the 93 tune would give me about 10-20 more Hp. I just don’t know if it’s worth $350.


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Correct if you have a fully completed 91 tune going to a 93 tune is an additional tune. Then you would have both a 91 and 93 tune.

For what it's worth you can also just run 93 in your 91 tune and get pretty close power wise to what a 93 tune would be. The 91 tune is just capped at a little less boost and timing.

If I were you I would find e85 so you can mix to e50 and just buy an e50 tune if you want the best bang for your buck!

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Thanks for the quick reply! We don’t have e85 fuel around here. All we have is 93 octane with 10% ethanol. We didn’t even have that until just recently. Most places only have 91 octane with 10% ethanol. The only other option was going to the airport where they have straight 102 octane, no ethanol, but you have to get it in containers because they won’t pump into a car. If using 93 with the 91 tune will get me close to the same gains as a 93 tune, I think that’s my best option. Would you agree?


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It's all up to you. Some have money lying around. Others aren't shooting for the best Dragy numbers or going for drag strip times. If it were me, I'd be happy with the 91 tune and using 93 octane gas.

Yes, I agree. That's why I said I think it's my best option. To have him write another tune for 93 when the 91 tune on 93 would get me close to the same results, wouldn't make sense. I had thought he could just "update" my 91 tune for $150 but that's not the case. He told me it would be an "additional tune" which is $350. So I'm happy to just run the 91 tune using 93. The price difference is only about .20/gallon.

Maybe I'm missing something here but if his 91 tune just has the timing and boost capped out, why can't it just be adjusted to accomodate 93? Why does he need a whole new tune?

Because that’s just the way it works. He probably would just make the adjustments to my 91 tune but it is still considered an additional tune. I would still have the 91 tune saved on my RTD but then I would additionally have the 93 tune.


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Still. . .what's the difference if say, you put in a new intercooler? He would just adjust (or update) you tune for $150. I just think it's the marketing and about money. Why "update" a tune for $150 when you can say it's an "additional" tune and get $350?

Shoot, $350 for a tune revision even in my opinion is cheap, much less a full tune. GM tuners charge anywhere from 800-1500 a tune. In my opinion ZFG is more than fair with their pricing structure, not to mention you know its going to be right. 3 years on my 93 tune now and not so much as a hiccup. Getting ready to update to DMS and e50 in the next few months.

Agree on pricing, I consider it reasonably cheap compared to others. My CTSV was around a grand for a dyno tune. Go European like MB, Audi, Porsche any you get into big dollar parts and tune. The remote tuning via logging is cheap and almost as good as a full dyno tunes imo.


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Let's compare apples to apples here! It cost me over a grand for my tune also! It's not like he is getting a whole new tune though! They are just going to use his 91 tune and adjust it for 93. I'm not bashing ZFG Racing by any means! I'm just being honest here. Build wise, they are going to do the same thing as if he added a new bolt on as they would do here; adjust his 91 tune. Marketing wise, they can call it an "additional" tune because it's for a different fuel and charge $200 more. Now, if they were going to take his base OEM tune and write a whole new tune for $300, that would be different. But that's not what is going to happen. As for other tuners, I can only speak for who I've used. 5-Star Tuning wrote tunes for my Mustang, which was heavily modded, and my F-150. They custom tuned both and I didn't pay no where near what I paid to tune my ST! And no, they were not "canned" tunes. I did remote datalogging, the same as I did with ZFG, and they customised the tunes to each vehicle.

Do you know for a fact that they will just tweak the existing 91 tune? I'm betting they have to start all over again with baseline, tank full of 93, and do all the data logging pulls and file transfers back and forth. That is why he will have a 91 and a 93 tune that he can flash back and forth in the end. That takes time and time is money and probably involves HPtuner credits also to add another tune I'm betting.

Go back and read post #2. ZFG replied and said, "The 91 tune is just capped at a little less boost and timing." Why would they have to write a whole new tune from baseline when all they need to do is adjust the boost and timing? I'm sure there may be some datalogging involved but there would be if he added new parts also. Again, I'm not bashing ZFG! I run their tune and I'm very happy with it! But, you're very naieve if you think this isn't a marketing strategy and about profit!

I'll counter with this though: What's wrong with a company trying to make a profit even if that is his strategy? He's the best in the business for this platform, he holds a bunch of records, and he could probably charge 3 times as much as he does and people would still pay it. Adam is a skilled tuner and those skills didn't come over night. At the end of the day he has a family to feed and bills to pay just like the rest of us. Giving out cheap tunes doesn't keep the lights on, especially in this current economy. The options are either pay his (what I think is more than reasonable price), or pick up HPtuners and start figuring it out. I can tell you which one of those is easier and its not the second one.

There is nothing wrong with it! I never said there was. I'm saying the same thing you just said! It's a marketing strategy and about profits. Why be in business if you're not going to try to make a profit? I never said it was unfair. I was just pointing out that their (Adam) reasoning didn't make sense. If it was a whole new tune from baseline then it would in fact be an "Additional Tune". However, by their own reply (post #2) they said the boost and timing are capped off and capping them off a little higher is not writing a whole new tune! That's it! Bottom line!

How do you think their capping them off though? I don't know the nuances of ST tuning specifically but in GM land that would mean altering a bunch of different tables. Its not like there's a drop down menu that says allow this much timing or boost, its a little more complex than that when you break it down. Therefore on his end probably the same amount of work. Now do I think he probably has some pretty good templates built for this platform at this point to where he knows whats needed? Absolutely but... your paying him for that time and knowledge.

You know, it really doesn’t matter whether he has to write a whole new tune or just tweak a few parameters! He has the right to charge whatever he wants! It’s his business!


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Kinda like the old joke where an engineer charged $30,000.00 to fix a glitch. All he did was take out a small hammer and one light tap and the problem was fixed. When he was challenged on the outrageous price he said the tap was only $1.50, knowing where to tap is $29,998.50

That's funny but exactly right!

Right, I don't mean to be stingy, but that's the way our pricing structure works. I will try to elaborate on it a little bit more so you guys can see where I'm coming from. AO, 91, 93, and E50 are all separate tunes, and when you look at standard tunes tow, daily driver, performance, and race are all separate tunes. That's how it has been since I started tuning ecoboost, and had been really the industry standard for years.

Going to dms effectively eliminated tow, daily driver, performance, and race by combining them all into one tune.

So that's where we are at. Anyone who knows me knows I'm very flexible and loose when it comes to charging for updates or taking a look at something, etc. In all reality, it should cost more to update, or I should go back to the two-tiered update pricing. Where I really try to draw a hard line on additional tunes, because in the past people always wanted to change their fuel type or goal after the tune was completed, but back when Tunes were delivered via email that means they already had the pervious tune and they could keep using it. So it was a never-ending cycle, so I started drawing a hard line.

I'm not trying to get rich by tuning, but I do need to make money doing it and I also have time constraints. Charging for additional tunes also helps regulate the volume of requests and helps keep the price of initial tunes where it's at.

When this typically comes up I tried to push people away from buying an additional tune to get a 93 tune and just going right to e50 because that's well worth the money, and honestly once you go e50 you don't go back.

Maybe someday we will live in a world where all it takes is one tune .

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