Anyone upgrade their Turbo Yet?

I was wondering if anyone has tried this one:

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/product-page/2020-3-0l-ecoboost-pure-turbo-upgrade-turbos

and what the takeaway was?

Quite a few people have but you need to get the rest of the puzzle into place first.

I'm probably going to take a lot of heat for this post, but....here goes. You can get a tune for about $700. This will put you into the mid to hi 12s on 93 completely stock (ask @LokiWolf). For about the same you can get into the low 12s on an e50 blend for the same price. That is bang for the buck! Now, you could also go get the latest 3" exhaust, the highest performing CAI, and guess what, after another $2k, you'll subtract a couple tenths of a second. The law of diminishing returns rears it's ugly head. Now specifically talking about turbos, it's probably going to cost you $5k for the turbos and installation. You'll probably be in the high 11s. Add in the 1700 fuel pump for e85 and you can see low-mid 11s. That's a lot of money for 3-5 tenths. But pretend you could care less about money and warranties. If you're truly interested in making as much horsepower as possible, I would not buy those turbos. The housing sizes are too limiting to stick with the stock turbos even with upgraded compressors and turbines. If you really want to make horsepower, go get yourself a single GTX 3584RS or a GTX 4294R. The compressor maps and turbine A/R combos are perfect for 3 liter engines. This would be a single turbo configuration. Both of these turbos have demonstrated over 800 hp on 3 liter supras and bmws. Now you're in pullied TrackHawk category. The price would be lower for the single turbo, although more costly for fabrication work than the upgraded stock-housing turbos.

My point is...if you want to run in the 12s and have probably the fastest SUV in town (outside of a TrackHawk) you can do that for the price of a tune. If you want to run full out, those upgraded turbos are not going to do it.

Your numbers are a bit off. E50/downpipes/intercooler and exhaust will put them in the 11’s. 11.70’s in my case. From there the HPFP and turbos would be the next steps to low 11’s

You're right, I'm estimating, but my point is bang for the buck. If you look at it that way, there's just not enough upgrade for the amount of price in those turbos. Because you're using stock housings, there just isn't any way to upgrade them beyond that. I can't even imagine the EGTs, let alone the turbine input pressure at peak hp. Yes, for $3.8k plus install, you could use the Pures or the Precisions and probably subtract 3-5 tenths, but for not much more money, you could have a single turbo with a choice of three different A/R turbine housings that would be worth 200+ hp over the upgraded twins. Just my opinion on where I'd spend my money. I've only seen two dynos for the upgrades, and they show them hitting peak boost at less than 3500 rpm. I'm sure you know enough to agree that means that turbine and compressor combo is way short of providing big hp numbers.

Thank you for the solid advice, I might do this. I don't really care about warranty, I want to push the limits of what the car can do and still be a daily driver.

One larger Turbo is the exact opposite of what a good daily driver needs.


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Not to mention the fab work involved. If someone thinks a few grand for modded chargers is high go ahead and price out a single charger swap. lol

What do you suggest?

Same thing I suggested in the 2nd post…get all the other pieces of the puzzle in place first then decide if you need new chargers. These things will run mid-11’s on stock chargers and E50.

So tune/exhaust/intercooler/fuel pump first and decide past that?

Tune/IC/downpipes/exhaust(not Borla) then decide if you wanna go further. After that HPFP/turbos/IC piping/intake/etc.

It really doesn't matter if it's one or two turbochargers. There is a perception that two turbos will "spool faster" than a single turbo. That just not the reality. A single turbo- sized appropriately will spool just as quickly. Now, I'm really not defending costs associated with moving to a single turbo setup- just the cost of the upgraded turbos vs the gains. As soon as ATP or some other manufacturer produces a bolt on kit with something like a pair of G25 series turbos, I'd be all over it.

Turbos are great, but the drawback is they are speed machines. They build boost through a feedback loop meaning that once enough energy (in the form of heat and pressure) begins to drive the turbine- which then drives the compressor, the speed increases as a square of the exhaust energy. That's why once the boost comes on it takes so little time/rpm to hit whatever peak boost has been commanded. If that peak boost is early in the rpm band, you get what people refer to as more "torque" which is really more hp at lower rpms. However, with fixed turbine geometry, as mass airflow increases with rpms what follows is very high back pressure and heat between the exhaust manifold and the turbine inlet choking off any additional boost gains since that back pressure will propagate back into the cylinder via valve overlap. This in turns produces what looks like higher boost pressure all the way back to the input manifold. A very nice way to make your exhaust valves glow in the dark followed by detonation and engine replacement. So, you can either have a turbine that allows mass airflow to produce gains at higher rpms making more horsepower, or one that produces more horsepower at lower rpms.

You can find all kinds of examples of identical engines with people looking for more "torque" and then showing 25+ psi of boost, when an engine with a properly sized turbine shows the same or higher peak horsepower at 15 psi of boost. That's because the "boost" pressure is actually turbine back pressure propagation. I'd see this all the time back in my Supra and STI days because people were looking to have maximum "torque" and less "lag" upset because they couldn't make peak hp numbers they wanted.

When I first look at turbo engine for mods, which I did on my ST, I look for base dyno results (thanks @LokiWolf ) making peak boost (as shown by torque figure) at about 2800rpm. For the reasons discussed, that doesn't bode well for HP. I've even seen 5 star tunes making boost even lower. They are no doubt trying to tune for higher "torque" figures, but it shows the limitations of the turbine housing size which is why if I were shooting for a lot more HP, and adequate twins would not fit, I'd go the single turbo route. And that does NOT mean that it wouldn't work for a daily driver. Given a stock RPM limit of about 6500 on the stock valve springs (I'm curious as to whether these are the same as the Raptor since according to posts, those exact same valvesprings are also used on the GT with a 7500 rpm limit) I'd shoot for a turbo(s) full boost about 4000-4500 rpm which those upgrades are not supplying.

So a long winded post, but one I hope is informative.

I'd chime in with my $.02. And this is just to make things as inexpensive upgrade-wise as possible.
Start with your goals:

Step 1. You just want the truck to be faster and want to spend as little as possible. Buy a tune for about $700.

Step 2. You want more than just a tune and still want to save money but don't want to lay out anymore cash than necessary in case you want to go further. In that case, I'd start with the intercooler and tune. At about $1000 plus install, it's expensive, but it provides some nice engine insurance and can even give you a bit more HP stock due to lower KR (knock ratings). Then the tune. The reason is that if you tune before the intercooler, (I'm assuming custom tune) you'll need additional tuning to take advantage. Maybe an e50 mix is now in the cards. I'm one who is happy to get 93 since that's what I run and am a bit loathe to start dealing with finding and blending.

You stock turbos are now maxed out- flow-wise. BIG money. So two different variations.

Step 3. Upgraded turbos. Now this is just my opinion. At this point, I'm looking for an upgraded turbo setup. And not the ones that are currently available unfortunately.

Alternate Step 3. You're not looking to spend $3700 plus install for the turbo units available. In this case, next option is alternate fuels. Now you can go for the $1700 HPFP plus install and go to e85, but it won't increase the mass flow rate through the stock turbos, although add on the price of a tune and because ethanol carries some O2 with it as well as some cooling properties it CAN give you more peak torque and a bit more HP. That results in a pretty formidable street machine, but bear in mind a good meth injection system can do the same thing for less money without having to find e85 pumps. Oh, and on e85 you'll also see about 25% lower fuel economy. Of course you'll have to remember to keep your meth tank topped off. For these reasons, I'm not a fan of alternative fuels. That's just me and my opinion, after all this isn't a dedicated track car. But it's an option.
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What about downpipes and exhaust? I have not seen anyone with actual before/after dyno numbers. Now, an exhaust, say Thermal is about $1600 plus install. Same for the downpipes at $950 plus installation. Will it make more horsepower? Call me a skeptic, but I'm a believer in doing upgrades in a disciplined one at a time way, and only if the stock pieces are a problem. I'm just not convinced the Ford exhaust is a problem at the power level of the stock turbos, but if you want to change the sound then go for it.

I picked up 2/10’s consistently with SPD DP’s and my own exhaust on 93…and the exhaust didn’t account for much of that improvement. I just knew I could make it sound the way I wanted it to.

I remember your posts on the 3" exhausts, but never saw any actual numbers. Beautiful work by the way! Flow wise, those twin 3" are probably good for 1500+ hp! I haven't ever seen any numbers for the upgraded cats. I mean, did you do those in different steps? Did you run the numbers with the cats on the stock exhaust?

No…I did the DP’s and exhaust all at once. Like I said…the exhaust was just because I knew I could make an EcoBoost sound deep and actually good with the larger piping. Total overkill for any power needs but they sound too tinny to me with smaller piping. If the exhaust cut ET by 1/100 I’d be surprised.

Super helpful in making some decisions soon.

Based on everyone who is respected on this site's advice, do the intercooler, catch-can, and custom tune. This will give you the tuning instrument, data logging and engine insurance you need for the long term. This, I think everyone can agree on. (@LokiWolf, @UNBROKEN, @Kruppa )? Then check back...maybe some other turbo options will be available by then.

I went with the Whipple intercooler, ZFG E50 tune, Magnaflow 19515 exhaust and the UPR catch can. The ten speed transmission performance also benefits from the tune. I am to the point that the truck is fast enough and if I add much more power I would then have to be concerned with breaking something in the driveline.