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Datalogs
- Thread starter Jonx96
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Thread Starter
#23
Besides the fact at this point I felt I had no issues with anyone and here you come being a keyboard warrior. Everyone else is being civil right now.
heck ya I have more to learn. Guess what. I’m excited to learn.
heck ya I have more to learn. Guess what. I’m excited to learn.
You have been given these answers, but you chose not to listen or did not understand(don’t mean that as a put down).
No modern EcoBoost uses a boost strategy. They use Torque management based tuning. Comparing boost across them is pointless, because so many things like temp, altitude, and fuel affect what PSI is requested. Watching it as a factor of monitoring and logging is fine, but using it as a gauge for performance is not really a thing on this platform.
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No modern EcoBoost uses a boost strategy. They use Torque management based tuning. Comparing boost across them is pointless, because so many things like temp, altitude, and fuel affect what PSI is requested. Watching it as a factor of monitoring and logging is fine, but using it as a gauge for performance is not really a thing on this platform.
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Whatever you want to call it, the fact is that all tuning is torque based tuning. In an ICE "torque" is a static measurement of cylinder pressure. In turn, cylinder pressure is a function of V/E and the density of the intake charge. Regardless of the ecu, given the same mechanical considerations we can change V/E at various RPMs via cam phasing, or effect charge density via boost through wastegate control. (Notice I'm leaving the particulars of the ECU out of this discussion!) So when you use the term "torque based", it/s confusing, since I know that to affect torque, and therefore horsepower, those two variables have to be tweaked along with appropriate timing. Not that matters, but my guess is that 400hp at 5500 "should" be about 1.8 bar.
Maybe it's not me who doesn't understand.
Maybe it's not me who doesn't understand.
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Now, I only have a few data points- the original Ford torque/hp figures and a handful of dyno charts from zfg, livernois, and 5 star. Based on those, you can see some pretty signficant differences in the torque and in all of these, zfg was most impressive. He has to be doing quite a bit of work to tweak those variables at the rate the stock turbos spool up to keep such a flat torque curve for so long into the rpm band. The other data point is as you remember Forzda who couldn't deal with the PID algorithm parameters for the closed loop wastegate control. Another difficult thing to get right. If it were as simple as just inputting a "required torque" number into a map, then all of those dynos would look the same.
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Right it's not that simple and your right, You have to remember this is a very young mostly stock market. Competitive edges are razor thin. Little things matter when your splitting hairs on a bunch of cars that are all the same. I also have a lot of money invested in emmisons testing and r&d on this platform, so "secrets" are closely guarded. Something like a hellcat platform where people are deep into moding and going fast is a little different because it's a little more than just a few "secrets" in the tune making those things fast.
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That sir, is an honest answer! So how close am I about 1.8 bar at 5500 stock? 
(We'll assume near sea level and 77 degrees)
(We'll assume near sea level and 77 degrees)
ECU makes that calculation in real time. There is also no base wastegate pressure. These have vacuum actuated wastegates with no reference to any boost, the truck can literally run 0 psi at wot if that's what is being called for torque wise.
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Yep, No clue…
The ECU particulars are what matters…
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The ECU particulars are what matters…
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But class, what have we learned interesting today? Our ST uses vacuum referenced wastegates. Which means they can be open regardless of boost pressure. This means they can be open when tooling down the road or at idle, etc resulting in better fuel efficiency as you don't have to put extra power into driving the turbines when not under load. It also means there's a vacuum pump of some type hiding under the hood. I've heard of this on diesels with VNT, but didn't know it was on the ST.
We also learned that the Ford ecu is calibrated to use a torque demand strategy (don't know if this is measured in lb/ft, newton/meters, lbs/min of airflow, or furlongs/fortnight) which allows it to adjust boost (and possibly cam timing?) based on that demand.
I also learned that the stock boost is between 15 and 20 psi which seems suprisingly high to me. I had only asked out of curiosity.
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Is this better, I quoted the whole thing? I also corrected my post above…”Yep, I have no clue…”. Just in case it doesn’t come through in the typed word…that was sarcasm.
All of the above is diarrhea of the keyboard.
Let’s summarize for the class…
Boost on a EcoBoost means ZERO in the logic and is a means to an end. Torque demanded is King. There is a lot more that happens between.
I have tuned diesels…it was 15+ years ago. I started looking at my first EcoBoost 7 years ago, and realized I was out of my league, then I saw the tables for a 10Speed, like the 10R60 and knew yep, I’ll leave it to the pros.
Went through a few tuners with my Edge Sport before I stumbled across this Adam guy who wanted to get somebody with a Edge to try higher than E30, and I said what the hell. Been using him ever since. I do Tech for a living and have a BS in Chemistry. I have driven some serious Race Cars(that go both left and right, not just straight) in my 30 years of driving. Don’t know it all, not even close. But nothing I have typed in this thread is incorrect. Might not use the terms you want, but not incorrect.
No more from me in this discussion cause well…pointless. And just because you seem to like them…here is more emojis…
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All of the above is diarrhea of the keyboard.
Let’s summarize for the class…
Boost on a EcoBoost means ZERO in the logic and is a means to an end. Torque demanded is King. There is a lot more that happens between.
I have tuned diesels…it was 15+ years ago. I started looking at my first EcoBoost 7 years ago, and realized I was out of my league, then I saw the tables for a 10Speed, like the 10R60 and knew yep, I’ll leave it to the pros.
Went through a few tuners with my Edge Sport before I stumbled across this Adam guy who wanted to get somebody with a Edge to try higher than E30, and I said what the hell. Been using him ever since. I do Tech for a living and have a BS in Chemistry. I have driven some serious Race Cars(that go both left and right, not just straight) in my 30 years of driving. Don’t know it all, not even close. But nothing I have typed in this thread is incorrect. Might not use the terms you want, but not incorrect.
No more from me in this discussion cause well…pointless. And just because you seem to like them…here is more emojis…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
