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Rear end damage
- Thread starter Chrispw24
- Start date
Those five (or more) with the failure need to go to the nhtsa website and file a claim. There they should state wrong parts installed at factory leading to failure. List those part numbers too. That will launch an investigation and audit. That is the best path to take.
Meanwhile, I purchased a Ford Premium Care warranty for $1379. $100 deductible for 100k miles from a dealer.
Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
Meanwhile, I purchased a Ford Premium Care warranty for $1379. $100 deductible for 100k miles from a dealer.
Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk
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Ask them what subframe part is listed on the build sheet for your VIN. If it is the 2.3L subframe... you are SOL--they must have made a running change sometime during MY2021. If it specifies 3.0L subframe then that is what you should have but was replaced with the 2.3L version.... probably at the factory/assembly level. If that is the case, you may have a chance. I've said it before, but it bears repeating: The 3.0L Explorers were designed with the 4 bolt subframe. Who OK'd the 2.3L? How high up the chain did the approval go? What may have started as a supply chain issue maybe morphed into a running change without engineering approval? that would be my guess.
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I asked a Ford Master Tech on the Raptor forum about our ExpST rear subframe issue. I’ve never heard of the Ford Mis-Builds dept he mentions, but I’ll ask my dealer about it when I get out there to check their vehicles for 3 or 4 bolts. Here’s what he said in reply:
“I don’t have access to any internal info like that, just Workshop Manual, parts catalog, and Service Messages. However, that’s the first I’ve heard of this issue. If it was a running change, I would have thought something would have been published to inform dealers.
So per the Ford parts catalog your 2021 ST shows that it should have the 4 bolt mount? If that’s the case, it would be considered a mis-build. Very unlikely to have multiple people with the same issue though; I would recommend that the forum members have their dealer contact Ford Mis-Builds to find out what’s going on. If the vehicle was supposed to be built with the 4 bolt and it was incorrectly built with a 3 bolt, that department has the authority to approve of the parts being replaced.”
“I don’t have access to any internal info like that, just Workshop Manual, parts catalog, and Service Messages. However, that’s the first I’ve heard of this issue. If it was a running change, I would have thought something would have been published to inform dealers.
So per the Ford parts catalog your 2021 ST shows that it should have the 4 bolt mount? If that’s the case, it would be considered a mis-build. Very unlikely to have multiple people with the same issue though; I would recommend that the forum members have their dealer contact Ford Mis-Builds to find out what’s going on. If the vehicle was supposed to be built with the 4 bolt and it was incorrectly built with a 3 bolt, that department has the authority to approve of the parts being replaced.”
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I dont think theres a 21/22 Explorer ST/Platinum/KR that has a build sheet with the 3 bolt yet they're arriving with 3 bolts.
Plenty of people have e-mailed their service and higher ups, they're not doing anything about it. Only some lucky one's have been able to get them replaced after the bolts breaking.
Plenty of people have e-mailed their service and higher ups, they're not doing anything about it. Only some lucky one's have been able to get them replaced after the bolts breaking.
Update for everyone, they are not budging and I don't have the time or patience to go back and forth. Plus I don't want to lose my appointment at the shop (they have a three month back log). I'm using my ford points to offset the cost of the part and seeing if they'll at least sell it to me at cost. The various members were right, I tried. Shitty move by Ford
Since this is at least the third thread on this subject, and it just gets more and more whiny, let me put in my two cents (yet again). I haven't heard of a single one of these "3 bolt" systems failing in non-modified cars. And that number is out of thousands that have been built, so even if one did, how do you know whether it wasn't mistreated in other ways?
As far as the owners whose vehicles actually broke- how many of them are going to admit that they didn't let off when they started getting wheel hop when they were launching? None of them. How many of them were denied warranty claims? I haven't heard of any. If you're going to modify your vehicle, you're going to have to pay for broken parts occasionally.
.Not a single person wants to own up to the reality that comes with modifying vehicles. You add another 100 lb/ft of torque via a tune in a 2 1/2 ton vehicle and something breaks and you're complaining that Ford won't hand you the equivalent of $1000 bucks plus a day of shop time to make you feel better? Especially if your vehicle hasn't had the problem yet?
This is my first Ford, so I'm no apologist, but when you start modifying your vehicle, you have to take some responsibility for problems.
As far as the owners whose vehicles actually broke- how many of them are going to admit that they didn't let off when they started getting wheel hop when they were launching? None of them. How many of them were denied warranty claims? I haven't heard of any. If you're going to modify your vehicle, you're going to have to pay for broken parts occasionally.
.Not a single person wants to own up to the reality that comes with modifying vehicles. You add another 100 lb/ft of torque via a tune in a 2 1/2 ton vehicle and something breaks and you're complaining that Ford won't hand you the equivalent of $1000 bucks plus a day of shop time to make you feel better? Especially if your vehicle hasn't had the problem yet?
This is my first Ford, so I'm no apologist, but when you start modifying your vehicle, you have to take some responsibility for problems.
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^^ however, when the vehicle is sold as a performance vehicle and initially comes with a stronger part that they then degrade, whether you mod or not its irritating, Porsche wont deny your warranty if you hard launch all day, but Ford will? when it breaks and a car flips, they'll wish they hadn't pinched pennies.
(remember the Firestone tyre blowouts) I get your point, mod the car at your own risk, but if its tolerances between working and grenading are so narrow, Im not impressed. These cars w/inferior parts are less than a year old, lets see what time tells. Theres gotta be some room for compromise and good will from them to address those of us who are worried/freaked out by the prospect of it all blowing up one day
(remember the Firestone tyre blowouts) I get your point, mod the car at your own risk, but if its tolerances between working and grenading are so narrow, Im not impressed. These cars w/inferior parts are less than a year old, lets see what time tells. Theres gotta be some room for compromise and good will from them to address those of us who are worried/freaked out by the prospect of it all blowing up one day
Here's where I completely agree with you. Mod the car at your own risk. If you truly believe Ford did this on purpose so they could pay out thousands in warranty claims to save 30 bucks, I just can't agree with you. Maybe it was availability. Maybe it was owners with modified vehicles on uneven surfaces. But this paranoia is a bit extreme.
If you're into modding and you believe it's a problem, then do what @FORZDA3 is doing. Man up and buy the subframe yourself. There are just too few data points for this to cause so much hand-wringing among people. How do you know it wasn't just a few poorly heat treated bolts that failed? Honestly, I have the 2020 so I do have the two bolt setup, but if I were going to modify my later model, I wouldn't start complaining until it broke, and then it'd get fixed.
If you're into modding and you believe it's a problem, then do what @FORZDA3 is doing. Man up and buy the subframe yourself. There are just too few data points for this to cause so much hand-wringing among people. How do you know it wasn't just a few poorly heat treated bolts that failed? Honestly, I have the 2020 so I do have the two bolt setup, but if I were going to modify my later model, I wouldn't start complaining until it broke, and then it'd get fixed.
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Well, you can't count the 2.3L Explorers because they are supposed to have the 3 bolt. Some 20% of Explorers are ST reportedly, so that's about 50k out there for MY2021. Only a handful have failed per anecdotal social media reports. The actual number could be far higher, just like those who have had transmissions replaced. Nobody knows the exact number. Your non-enthusiast that this would happen to just knows their drivetrain failed and Ford fixed it under warranty. They don't care about subframe mount counts or posting it on social media. So yeah, you go ahead and drive without a care knowing Ford will fix it if it fails. But guess what?...there will come a time when your warranty will expire. You are basically forced to buy an ESP because if it does fail, because you're talking potentially thousands in repair costs. And every time you take that family trip, why should you have to worry about being stranded hundreds of miles from home just because Ford cheaped out. The fact that they are now replacing failed 3 bolts with a 4 bolt is basically an admission of guilt in my book. Hey, if it means anything, I have a 4 bolt MY2020 and am madder than heck about this!
My guess this would fall under powertrain which is 5/60k warranty (since this is the mount point for a powertrain component). We can complain all we want, but until the people that have had the failures report it to the NHTSA nothing will happen. I wonder if we all could report it to them??? Since some say the VIN calls for the 4 bolt.
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Agreed. I think it would take some serious abuse to get one of these to break. I eventually plan to tune mine and I’m not going to worry about it. I don’t plan on racing mine, going off-road or anything like that. Just around the town occasional fast spurts.
I think the whole messed up part is no communication from ford regarding the change. It’s unacceptable. Owners should know when and why these changes occurs. Ones that have such potential safety implications. I’m guessing we are such in a minority here and 98% of people have no such idea. So ford thinks they can just get away with it.
Having said all of this, next time I go in, I will press my dealer on this. I’m already having something else investigated on my car with ford and corporate. The subframe will be next.
I think the whole messed up part is no communication from ford regarding the change. It’s unacceptable. Owners should know when and why these changes occurs. Ones that have such potential safety implications. I’m guessing we are such in a minority here and 98% of people have no such idea. So ford thinks they can just get away with it.
Having said all of this, next time I go in, I will press my dealer on this. I’m already having something else investigated on my car with ford and corporate. The subframe will be next.
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Yeah, their best people to provide all production info are their exceptional shop technicians, what relative few they have. Yes, there are some really good Ford Techs out there, I know a few (not personally) that have a great rep on the specific vehicle forums and literal word-of-mouth. A seasoned, long-time Master Tech should know everything up-to-date about their line of vehicles.
….I don’t think the parts swap was thoroughly reviewed by the Design Engineering section of Ford. Oh well…
@TMac also made a good comment about what we DON’T know about this “issue”. However, we DO know that the Ford Parts systems says a bunch(?) of us have the wrong part. Will it definitely fail? Maybe, maybe not, but I went back to my(ZFG) 93 tune vs the E50. The E50 tune is brutal at WOT!
….I don’t think the parts swap was thoroughly reviewed by the Design Engineering section of Ford. Oh well…
@TMac also made a good comment about what we DON’T know about this “issue”. However, we DO know that the Ford Parts systems says a bunch(?) of us have the wrong part. Will it definitely fail? Maybe, maybe not, but I went back to my(ZFG) 93 tune vs the E50. The E50 tune is brutal at WOT!
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