Why we didn't buy an Explorer ST, and other various thoughts

We recently decided against an Explorer ST and instead purchased an Expedition Limited with the Stealth Package. I figured I'd leave my thoughts about the Explorer here, as we were torn between the two, but opted for Expedition largely due to the larger size for our family.

Explorer Pros:
Styling - It's subjective, but I think Ford absolutely NAILED IT. They don't have a bad angle, and while the factory wheels aren't my favorite things ever, I like them.

Chassis - The chassis is the star of the show in Explorer ST. It rides great, handles bumps great, handles great, minimal body lean and pitch, though personally, I'd prefer a little stiffer (more on that later).

Price (Right Now) - In these days of limited discounts an MSRP of 58k is amazing. It puts it in a price range where it totally put classes the competition. It's seriously priced in line with 290hp v6 Grand Cherokee L, which is admittedly more luxurious and capable, but nowhere near as fast. V8 Grand Cherokee is way over the price of St. That said, I do remember when the incentives were out and things were normal finding their pricing disappointing. It was like 50k for an ST, but a Durango srt was like 55 to 60k. That makes a lot less sense than the 5k vs 80knspread to Durango srt now.

Size - I know it's weird to say the size of explorer is a pro when I bought an expedition over it because of size, but we both agreed explorer would have been "just fine". It didn't drive too big, and I think it'd have been enough space overall.

Cons:
Vertical screen - is stupid. The 8" screen looks better to me, works better to me, and Ford dropped the ball with the vertical screen. Had it been placed horizontally, it'd have been better in every way.

Digital Cluster - Kind of laggy. That's OK in the semi digital expedition cluster, because it's only the center part. But having the whole thing digital I wasn't a fan of, too many animations and the lag that goes with it. Sport mode was the only display I liked and would want to use.

Stereo - The B&o system was OK, but not up to the standard of B&o IMO. The B&o in our expedition is way better. Also, the upgraded 14 speaker system should be the only option, the 12 speaker system is dumb. They need a step up system from the 14 b&o, because it doesn't compete with the McIntosh or h/k systems that dodge and jeep use.

Character - This is more a personal choice, but it doesn't have the character I want. It drives more like my sisters Q5 than it does the bruiser sport SUVs. My TBSS, a jeep srt, Durango rt or srt.... They all drive like badasses. They feel a little brutish but also super agile. The St feels more import to me, it's nimble and fast, but not as brutish as I'd like. I can't quantify it, but it just doesn't quite do it.

Market placement - ST is a weird in between Durango rt and srt. It's a little sportier than a standard rt, kinda the same as a tow n go but a little faster, but not as sport as an srt or any of the even sportier suvs. I wish they had gone a little more hardcore with it, 450 to 480hp, a little lower, a little more aggressive, etc.

Engine noise - Ecoboost motors all sound like crap it seems. Our 3.5 does, the 2.7 and 3.0 do, it's just not their strong point. It sucks, but it's the truth. I almost didn't mind the FENG because it at least sounded better. Ford needs to have the guys who tuned the coyote sound help them on their Ecoboosts.

Deal breakers:
Towing capacity - 5600 wasnt enough, 6000+ would have been. Aviator GT had it, why didn't explorer?

Transmission - this goes hand in hand with the above I guess. Ford should have used the 10r80. This would have helped in towing capacity, robustness, with few tradeoffs.

Cheapness - The panel fit and finish is atrocious. My 2009 Trailblazer SS has better fit and finish. The big seam in the passenger carpet, the center stack that doesn't line up, the cheap materials scattered around.... Unacceptable at that price point IMO.

All that said, it's still a very nice package at a very good price. Ford IMO needs to upgrade the transmission and interior for the refresh supposedly in 2023 another 50 to 75hp would be a good thing too.

What Ford really needs is an RS model.. Ideally it'd have a supercharged coyote, but at a minimum a 550 plus hp version of the 3.5 Ecoboost would be under the hood (v8 would be better though). It'd also need sportier seats with Alcantara inserts, lower and stiffer suspension, and more aggressive looks. Something that could compete with an sq7 basically, but be in the high 60s, maybe low 70s fully loaded.

Ok. Bye then.

I think Ford nailed it at the price point and I'm a GM guy. Nice sporty looks with really decent stock pickup for a vehicle it's size. If I were still towing a track car around I would not have gotten an Explorer. It does have a cheaper feel in the body like when you close a door. Hoping the sound deadening project fixes that as there really is minimal stock. If I still had young kids I was toting around I don't think the Explorer would have been big enough. For me downsizing from 20 years of full sized truck and suvs, driving the explorer is a real joy to drive. My biggest complaint is I am used to truck steering and the Explorer is way more precise. Almost swung into another lane a few times while getting use to it.

If I felt like blowing twice the money I would have looked hard at a supercharged Escalade V but just couldn't justify the cost. Also thought about a used Yukon or such and throwing a blower on it. Couldn't be happier to date with my Explorer.

Hey guys, just letting you know how superior I am in selecting something else that meets my needs because my requirements are different than yours....but you obviously haven't spent any time thinking about your needs, so let me tell you why every car I've ever owned is much better. What a douche.

I agree, they definitely nailed it for their price point. That said, I think I would have paid 2 to 5k more for 50 more hp, a stouter trans that towed 6500ish pounds, and more quality all around. I still think the ST is a great package, and honestly, it'd be a great companion to our expedition. If something were to total my tbss, it'd be at the top of my list.

I mean, if that's how you feel, that's on you. I can assure you, the ST is better than most cars I've owner, we just decided more space would be better for a family hauler. The point I was making is more like a few areas for Ford to improve.

The ST is a performance oriented SUV, the Expedition is not. At 70k with the Performance Package, the Expedition weighs over 1,000 lbs more than an ST. Even if you spent another 5k for the Stealth Performance Package (440 hp) your power to weight ratio is still not as good as the ST. So enjoy your ride, but the main reason why people opt for an ST is the very reason why they won't get an Expedition.

In reality, his story is similar to someone who's choosing between two women. You write a letter to the one you didn't pick, telling her all the great things about her ... but that you chose the other woman instead. I imagine it wouldn't go over too well. Lol

I would not argue with that. A bit more power, a stouter tranny, and high enough towing fow a decent sized boat but not an exclosed car carrier.

Now that's a funny analogy!

Totally agree. The expedition with the stealth package just looks nicer, it's IMO no sportier. At least not enough to even use the word sporty, lol. This car was for the wife though, so she doesn't care about that.

For me.... I wish they'd gone a little bit more crazy.

Sorry, I'm confused by your definition of "crazy."

The ST's body lines are objectively more aggressive, and it has a better power-to-weight ratio (3.0L 400 hp ST 12.3 lb/hp, 3.5L 400 hp Exp 14.8 lb/hp).
Per C&D tests, the 400 hp ST does 0-60 mph/quarter mile in 5.2/13.8@101 mph, the 400 hp Expedition 5.7/14.4@97 mph.

Now if you said you wanted more luxury, etc., I'd understand. But I don't get the "wish they'd gone a little bit more crazy" thing.

Anyhoo, drop some pictures of your ride so we can see it. I hope you enjoy your Expedition for a long time to come.

I wish the ST was even sportier. 450hp, a little lower and more aggressive, monoblocks brakes...

Maybe I wasn't clear. We bought the expedition for my wife, but we considered buying the ST for me. We needed a 3 row of some sort and either of us could have upgraded, but I like fast cars, my wife doesn't care about that stuff. The expedition is more than fast enough for her, I wanted the explorer to be even sportier.

To be honest, the expedition does make me like the ST more, I just want more out of it. The overall feel of Ford's is appealing to me, they just feel good to me (we've had countless Explorers in my family - my first car was a 95 explorer sport). If it had been a little more rowdy, a little faster, and towed more, I'd have bought one for me, and the wife would have kept her rogue. I guess I just wanted a little more rowdiness, like the ST is too composed? I get for a lot of people that's something they'd prefer, its more comfortable for a daily and people don't feel like it's "over the top". But that's not me, I want more crazy.

I want an Explorer RS. Hopefully, that becomes a thing.

Good rebuttle! Good breakdown of the decision making process.. I was a little confused with the original post and why it was made.. but I do agree with a few things here.. either way, the fact you even found an Expedition these days is crazy so enjoy it!

No kidding.
We got lucky that it was only 3 hours away. There were a few local that just didn't really work for me, but we found our 4x4 stealth at a dealer that includes a lifetime powertrain warranty, so very lucky indeed.

If Wishes Were Fishes, The World Would Be An Ocean

If you personally wished for a sportier (i.e. "faster") SUV from Ford, then it's already here. The ST is the logical answer.

But if you're pondering about 450 hp, then it should be noted that the 10r60 would almost certainly have to be switched out for the 10r80, along with other required upgrades and then prices start rising exponentially. Historically speaking, the ST brand has never been produced as gas consuming power monsters.

That stated, your desires clearly do not correspond to that of Ford's.

If you want more crazy (there's that strangely ambiguous term again), then you need to look at the Dodge Durango SRT. But be warned, doing so will set you back an additional $20k over the ST and have you eating fuel faster than the liquefied dinosaurs can provide it. I repeat, this is not Ford's vision for their ST line.

Speaking of an RS Explorer to fulfill your automotive wishes reminds us of the proven axiom "nothing in this world is free". If produced, it would certainly be at a hefty sum (and I honestly wonder if you'd then be complaining about that).

Bottom Line: Your ideals are lofty, your desires, unrealistic.

The ST comes in a a great price point for it's performance level, which is already a thing.

Like I said before, a $70k Explorer RS would be fine for me, if it had the 10r80, 550 to 600hp, and was sportier. Frankly, it should have had the 10r80 in the first place to help with towing. The hybrids got it, the ST should have as well.

An SRT Durango is an option, but I'd hopefully just go Hellcat instead. I'd buy a used Hellcat over a new srt, in still disappointed they're wasting Hellcat on the TRX, but made it 1 year only for Durango.

If I'm buying a sport suv, gas use isn't my top priority. If it was, I'd be looking at a mild hybrid like what Mercedes offers, or a PHEV like BMW and Volvo offer. I can get Fords plan, don't go whole hog and come in cheap. That's typically the GM game plan, certainly what my tbss was when new. Id have preferred they charge 5k more and install a larger intercooler, a 10r80, and up the power for the ST. Even if it was loaded at 62 or 63k, they would have smashed the competition in price, and put out an even better product. Maybe they will for the mid cycle refresh? A guy can hope.

As I already mentioned, you're not even close to being realistic.

Heh, did you see the 434 hp Porsche Macan GTS that goes from 0-60 in 3.5 sec and only costs $60k?
Yeah, neither did I. It's $80k.

Sorry, I can't support your awkward reasoning. No person of common sense really can.

And after all this wasted chatter, still no picture. Lol

Hopefully
Hopefully you didn't buy it at Preston Ford with the lifetime warranty. You will never be able to keep up with the requirements in order to keep the warranty active. It will cost you 2-3 times more than a new engine would cost for them to honor the warranty. They will charge you so much for so little each time you have it serviced at their dealership, which is a requirement of the warranty, that you will see how it is just trickery on their part, sorry.

A Ford price point and a Porsche price point are VERY non comparable. They're more expensive not because of performance, but because of details, engineering, and branding. A lot of branding actually, because it's the same as the Audi Q5 that's a whole bunch cheaper.

It would not have cost them that much more to up the boost a bit, and install a 10r80. People tune these to well over 450 crank routinely, so really, that's free. The 10r80 gets put in the f150 that starts at right about the same as a base explorer. Even if it cost Ford 2 grand more, that'd be a lot. Hell they could go crazy and throw the 3.5 in, d150 offers the 2.7 nano and the 3.5 gen2 so they should both fit the explorer bay and would fit behind the 10r80 that explorer uses on hybrids.

It would not cost Ford much to do this. Hell, there's gonna be aftermarket people that do it I'm sure.

Anyways.... I took some dirty pics of it with my tbss. It makes the tbss look tiny, lol.