Rear end damage

db252 · Apr 29, 2022

We all know how the pcm change is not the fix but we aren’t talking about the benefit, or lack thereof, of the pcm change. These ‘fractures’ are occurring from high torque events like full throttle from a stop or towing which means under driving events obviously. Does Ford think they are breaking from parking on a slope (sarcasm) or are they just worried that AFTER it breaks when we pull off the road and put the car in park that we don’t set the parking brake so it will just roll away? This is asinine.
Of the two different pics of breaks I’ve seen, the diffs clearly show a two bolt attachment point on the diff cover which also points to the obvious. Ford does make a single attachment diff cover for models that by design (less hp/to) only require the single bolt rear subframe attachment point.
So, I’d love to hear why the auto parking brake engagement with transmission placed in Park, in regards to this situation, is some type of temporary answer.

I Bleed Ford Blue · Apr 29, 2022

I was thinking the same thing. What is the point of auto engaging the e-brake? It won't stop the failure from happening, so why do it? My guess, ford came up with this solution so they can say they no idea why this failure is happening, and it's a stop gap until they can figure it out. If they went straight to replacing the subframe, then they would basically be admitting they know why the failures are happening.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 29, 2022

st8 said:

Absolutely! But I've found the 50 mph downshift just as satisfying. Also, I noticed the trans won't always go down to the lowest gear possible when putting the hammer down. For ex: I cruise up to ~40 mph and floor it. The trans will drop down to 3rd, when 2nd is within easy reach. Shifting in manual mode circumvents that.

db252 said:

That is EXACTLY what Ford is trying to accomplish, the rolling away after parking if the bolt breaks.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 29, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

What is involved in assembling a class action suit?

LoneShark · Apr 29, 2022

db252 said:

We all know how the pcm change is not the fix but we aren’t talking about the benefit, or lack thereof, of the pcm change. These ‘fractures’ are occurring from high torque events like full throttle from a stop or towing which means under driving events obviously. Does Ford think they are breaking from parking on a slope (sarcasm) or are they just worried that AFTER it breaks when we pull off the road and put the car in park that we don’t set the parking brake so it will just roll away? This is asinine.
Of the two different pics of breaks I’ve seen, the diffs clearly show a two bolt attachment point on the diff cover which also points to the obvious. Ford does make a single attachment diff cover for models that by design (less hp/to) only require the single bolt rear subframe attachment point.
So, I’d love to hear why the auto parking brake engagement with transmission placed in Park, in regards to this situation, is some type of temporary answer.

refer to post #504

st8 · Apr 30, 2022

CareerFiremanGuy said:

you know, I haven’t messed too much with manual mode. Like at all lol I will have to give that a go.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 30, 2022

st8 said:

I tried manual mode 5 min after leaving the dealer's lot. Got to test these things out you know!

But here's the example of what I was talking about:
I'm cruising around town in D at 40 mph. I floor it and the rpm jumps to 3,300 rpm. That equates to 3rd gear.
But if I'm cruising around in D at 40 mph and manually downshift to the lowest gear, the rpm jumps to 4,600 rpm. That is 2nd gear.

My Stinger GT had a small physical downshift switch on the floorboard underneath the accelerator pedal.
When you floored it you depressed that button and the trans knew to drop down to the lowest possible gear.
It worked pretty well. I'm thinking the ST prevents that at times to protect the trans and drive train.
Not sure it does this at all speeds, will have to test it further.

ZookaRoo · Apr 30, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

https://www.autoblog.com/amp/2022/04/29/ford-explorer-recall-axle-bolt-failure/

this article explains the issue

I Bleed Ford Blue · Apr 30, 2022

I know what the issue is. I was speculating as to why ford would waste our time with a stupid auto engaging e brake that will solve nothing except cover their own ass. It wont prevent the failure from happening. If ford were to admit the true reason for the failure, then NHTSA would require them to swap out the subframe to the correct one and at roughly 4K for parts and labor on every explorer that got the wrong subframe. And someone estimated there are approx 200K ST and platinum explorers with the wrong subframe. That's 800 million dollars, that can put a serious dent in any company's finances, if not bankrupt them.

ZookaRoo · Apr 30, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

Ok ….they are admitting in that article why the part is failing. My guess is a few more issues of this happening or a accident caused from the break will result in the rest of us getting the fix just like the PIU.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 30, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

The roll away in Park after the bolt breaks is what they're addressing.
It's been reported on this forum that the fix for the actual bolt break is covered under a TSB (TSB's are "fix it if a customer shows up with a failure").
That's different from a Recall ("all vehicles must be brought in").

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 30, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

$$$$

I Bleed Ford Blue · Apr 30, 2022

ZookaRoo said:

If ford were to tell the truth, that the real reason this is happening is because they decided to save a few bucks and use the 1 bolt subframe, then NHTSA would be all up in their ass over this.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 30, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

At some point the NHTSA should figure that out for themselves regardless of what Ford says.

I Bleed Ford Blue · Apr 30, 2022

One can hope.

KANSAS · Apr 30, 2022

So I see we are getting quite a few failures because of our change to a three bolt subframe.

Yes, the government will probably make us issue a recall.

But a recall has to include a fix with it.

The only fix is to replace them with the proper 4 bolt subframe.

We can’t do that. It’s way too expensive!

I have an idea. What if we say the only problem is the vehicle can roll away.

Great idea! Then our fix can be to just automatically engage the park brake.

Good job team! Another problem solved.

I Bleed Ford Blue · Apr 30, 2022

When the rear axle rotates under hard accel the pinion climbs upward. Having a horizontal bolt to hold the axle housing in place is just asking for trouble. If you look at the diagram on how the rear axle housing is mounted, there are two ears on either side of the pinion snout that has two rubber bushings and a vertical bolt.

If you replace parts 9, 10,and 11 with stiffer delrin bushings, you could limit vertical movement of the pinion snout and could reduce or eliminate the chances of bolt failure. Throw in a super strong bolt in the back where they break and an acceptable fix could be done for less than $250 in parts.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 30, 2022

I Bleed Ford Blue said:

$250 x 252,936 Explorers = $63,234,000

Not including labor.

I Bleed Ford Blue · Apr 30, 2022

Is that the number recalled or the number that actually got the 1 bolt sub when it should have gotten the 2 bolt?

252,936 x $4,000 = $1,011,744,000 That is the estimated cost to replace all the 1 bolt subs with a 2 bolt sub. Roughly 2K in parts and 2K labor.

CareerFiremanGuy · Apr 30, 2022

That is the number of 20-22 Explorers recalled as per this article:
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/04/29/ford-explorer-recall-axle-bolt-failure/

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