Warranty denial?

CornFarmer · Dec 1, 2022

With all the concern of warranty being denied on a family vehicle just because of a tune, does anyone actually have any experience of this happening? Couldn't you just flash back to the stock tune before taking the car in for warranty work? Would they really look that hard? Most of these dealerships seem to be filled with flunkies who don't have a clue.

Basically I'm wanting to tune but obviously still just a little apprehensive as my explorer is brand new.

zdubyadubya · Dec 1, 2022

Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone's got one. But the skinny of it is going to be "it depends". Flashing back to stock doesn't work because they see your vehicle with 5000-10000 miles on it and it has like 4 key cycles. obviously thats not a realistic use scenario so they know you flashed the ecu. So it really comes down to you and your relationship with your dealer and how willing they are to go to bat for you with Ford. I've heard from multiple ford techs that when completing warranty paperwork there is a question that asks basically, "do you believe the vehicle has a 3rd party tune or has ever been tuned by a 3rd party"... so Ford is taking that into consideration when assessing your claim. The Magnuson Moss Act is supposed to give you protection for items that supposedly aren't related to the tune... but like with everything Ford has the upper hand. They have the attornerys and the time to wait you out and drag things out as long as they need to make you go away.

It IS a risk, but with a good dealer and more importantly a good tuner (e.g., ZFG or others mentioned and reviewed on this forum) who won't FUBAR your truck, you are safe to tune away to your hearts content.

CornFarmer · Dec 1, 2022

So does ZFG not leave any trace or what do you mean safe to tune away?

zdubyadubya · Dec 1, 2022

I mean safe as is in the tune won't punch a hole in a piston or nuke your transmission.

ALL tunes leave a trace because they require a reset of the ECU and that process itself leaves a record of that being done.

dolsen · Dec 2, 2022

zdubyadubya said:

I've found the good dealer to be the key in all of this. There is one particular dealer that I usually go to for warranty work and they don't care about car modifications. I think if it is CLEAR AND OBVIOUS that my mods caused a failed part, they would not do the work under warranty, but they don't ask a million questions to find reasons not to perform warranty work. It probably helps that the owner and his son love to modify and race their cars as well.

Blown F-150 · Dec 2, 2022

Not with the ST, but I was denied by Ford for my truck that was tuned. They thought is was a motor (so did I) and they told me "no". Turned out to be a Torque Converter issue, but it was too late, lol. Full customer motor and Circle D TC were en route.

Rocketw19 · Dec 2, 2022

CornFarmer said:

this is just my opinion. I would def only take all the replies as opinions unless someone actually had work denied the rest is just opinions.
My opinion is the dealer wants the work they are most likely not going to give a shit. Ford pays the dealership to fix warranty work. that's money in the bank for the dealership.
I would def re-flash it back to stock and never admit you were tuned. just common sense dont put the dealership in a bad spot by saying your tuned. They will fix it get paid by ford and your on your way.

If its a real issue for you people are liking the ford performance tune.

bluesnake01 · Dec 2, 2022

Just like it was 20 years ago, same rule applies today. If the tune was cause of the problem, the warranty will not cover the problem. Only difference is they're able to trace things easier now than before, people used to remove the tune just in case if it was the tune that caused it.

Ford can see the restart cycles, if tune is removed, the restart cycles go back to zero. Would only be obvious you had a tune or dead battery for a while. FYI, Ford app gets notified when you have a low charged battery upon start up.

So yes, just like it was 20 years ago if they find you had a tune and was the cause, warranty denied. This question keeps getting beat like a dead horse over and over and over for every car maker

TMac · Dec 2, 2022

Rocketw19 said:

Your logic is sound, but business-wise, it's missing certain details. Keep in mind we're talking about a performance tune. In the case of an entire transmission or an engine failure, it won't be up to the dealer. They have to get permission to do something like that which brings a Ford warranty rep into the scene to further investigate and then to OK it.

The other thing to consider is how much Ford will pay for certain warranty repairs. In some cases the dealer can make more money doing other, more profitable work rather tying a tech up with a job that pays less. All that means is a dealer that puts you off isn't the end of the story- try another.

The truth is, if you're concerned about your warranty and can't live without your car for weeks (due to something major), you shouldn't even think about playing around with it performance-wise. The odds are that a decent tuner or the FP tune is unlikely to destroy your engine, but if you are that concerned, just don't do it. But, as I and others have pointed out, they aren't going to void your engine warranty because you have some suspension mods or stereo mods nor will they alienate a customer over something trivial.

northof60expST · Dec 2, 2022

Ford has a very clear step by step protocol that a technician would have to follow if they feel a tune has caused damage to an engine. This is well documented in the Focus RS forums.
Ford will always cover their corporate ass.

TMac · Dec 2, 2022

northof60expST said:

Good information- would you be kind enough to summarize the protocol and tell us the experience of the RS owners?

northof60expST · Dec 2, 2022

I owned a RS for little while so as on this forum the RS owners are asking the same questions about tuning and dealers. Someone on the RS forum shared exactly what Ford would ask a technician check to see if the car is tuned or modified in any way. From air intake to flash count. All step by step. If I can find it online, I will share it. Of course, this type of scrutiny only comes up when there is a major problem.

northof60expST · Dec 2, 2022

Below is some info from that forum. I will keep looking.

"The dealer uses the IGNCNTR value stored in the PCM to detect if you have tuned the car."

northof60expST · Dec 2, 2022

northof60expST · Dec 2, 2022

From Member Preauto on the RS forum, July 2016

"I laugh every time I see a thread that the members say just return it to stock and take it to the dealer..NOT TRUE.
I own a company who does performance tuning on GM and Ford vehicles. [performance autosport] The first thing we tell our customers is tuning will VOID your Warranty. Even if the Vehicle is returned to stock the dealer tech can tell it has been flashed and will flag the car,If the dealer has any dough's there are several tests that can be done to see if the ECU has been altered.
People will also quote the Magnuson warranty act about the manufacture proving the damage but who has the time or money to fight them,plus it is clearly specified that a tune will void the warranty in the owners booklet.
IMO a tune is great for performance and if the warranty is not an issue than do it,but do not think you can get anything by the dealers these days ,the first time your truck/car is plugged in to the Ford laptop the first screen the tech sees is that the truck/car has been modded and when that laptop is updated by Ford all that info goes directly to there data base and your done.
Any major or minor repairs must be approved by the Ford warranty people and a rep will be sent out to look over the vehicle for any major repairs,the dealer is NOT the decision maker and if they fix it with out telling Ford first ,then the claim is denied."

Just like what zdubyadubya said in # 2 farther up the page.

powerby50 · Dec 3, 2022

bluesnake01 said:

Just like it was 20 years ago, same rule applies today. If the tune was cause of the problem, the warranty will not cover the problem. Only difference is they're able to trace things easier now than before, people used to remove the tune just in case if it was the tune that caused it.

Ford can see the restart cycles, if tune is removed, the restart cycles go back to zero. Would only be obvious you had a tune or dead battery for a while. FYI, Ford app gets notified when you have a low charged battery upon start up.

So yes, just like it was 20 years ago if they find you had a tune and was the cause, warranty denied. This question keeps getting beat like a dead horse over and over and over for every car maker

Wonder if I flashed It back , then disconnected the battery overnight so the Ford app tags a dead battery if that would cover the key cycles.

Rocketw19 · Dec 5, 2022

TMac said:

do you think the normal (not pushing the limits tune) would effect the motor? I obviously have no clue but I would think most of the time its part failure, failure that would happen even if stock.
If its a lean issue I would just assume right away its the tune but almost anything else what could a tune cause? sensor failure - fuel injectors - pistons (other then burning a hole from lean) cam - crank? I could see the motor wearing out sooner but I just dont see a ZFG daily driver tune braking parts? What I did see a lot of times on Trackhawk pages were people putting in wrong octane and some stations on the east coast say E85 and its not. Thats operator error not the tunes fault.

TMac · Dec 5, 2022

A tune by itself is not going to contribute to sensor failure, subject to alternative fuels. Certainly though, adding additional stresses to the engine will affect longevity. As to how much, no one can know for sure. As I stated in your quoted post, and a few others, if one is unsure, or unable to afford an "out of warranty" repair, don't do it.

That being said, I wouldn't have any problems in running a tune from ZFG on gasoline and then making ABSOLUTELY sure I stuck to whatever octane was designated for that tune. In my experience (and that by no means I know everything), it's when people start playing with alternative fuels (E85, Methanol, NO2), etc that they get into trouble. Just my opinion FWIW.

Rocketw19 · Dec 5, 2022

TMac said:

I probably didnt explain myself good enough. IMO the tune will not cause these broken parts. will they wear faster I would think so but not brake anything. thats all I was trying to say.

From what I have seen ( i been at this a long time) its almost always the fuel sometimes the tuning is the cause and sometimes its the user. The first trackhawks were having these issues left and right tuners blaming users and users blaming tuners, but bottom line it was fuel related every time.

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