I'm disappointed

Hello,

First post, just sharing a rant for anyone who cares to read.
I need to vent, this feels like the right place.

I've been driving an Explorer ST since Sept 2019, I got the very first one in my area when it came out. I really enjoyed every aspect of the 2020 Explorer ST, I though it was a great SUV.
I had it fully spec'd, it ran great (aside from a snap ring getting loose in the transmission a few months ago, all covered by the warranty) and had the features that I wanted.

My 2020 ST lease was up around Sept last year, and I ordered the "exact same" 2023 ST to have feature parity, which I just picked up today.
After having the new truck for about 4-5 hours, I am strongly starting to regret not keeping the 2020 ST. More importantly I feel like I've got a brand new more expensive downgrade from what I was driving this morning.

The things I was aware of, first off, the 2023 sticker was about CA$7k more expensive, and I was made aware that it would not include the massage seats due to chip shortages, COVID, inflation, Ukraine, zombies and what not. I was ok with those conditions. A bit disappointing, but I assumed the rest of the truck would keep the spirit of the original ST that I was turning in.

Here's where things started getting really disappointing for me once I received the SUV:
- The 2nd row center cup holder is gone - I discovered through this forum as I was googling (https://www.explorerst.org/threads/...p-holder-console-between-captain-chairs.3657/), that this was an omission that started on the 2022 model. This is something the kids relied on, now we have a carpet that we need to cover to protect it from all mess that comes with having young children. Cup holders are below the 2nd row climate control near the floor. Nothing easily accessible in the center
- SYNC4 - I was told back in September that the 2023 ST was getting that, it turns out this was not true. the 2023 Explorer (ST or otherwise) all run SYNC 3 as opposed to other 2023 Fords in the lineup which have SYNC 4
- Front camera washer/sprayer is gone - no mention of this anywhere, it's just absent compared to the 2020, wasn't even offered as an option (which I would have added) or mentioned during the purchase process - I used this on a frequent basis with low front visibility or in parking lots
- Rear camera washer either doesn't work (which might be an issue that I need to take up with the dealer) or is also gone - this is a major annoyance, I expected this to be standard; I found this out the hard way as I was dealing with snowy grime on the backup camera and had to step out of the car to clean it after spraying the rear window did nothing for the camera.
- I feel like the build quality is inferior to the 2020 and also the 2020 had a lot more accessories included with it, protectors, pouches, the glovebox had a dedicated insert for the manual (that's gone, it's just a typical dump your crap in glove box). Small details that made me really happy about the purchase when I first got it. I went looking for those only to find nothing of the sort.

What I find really disappointing is that the 2020 ST had these (except for SYNC4 obviously) and had a lower price tag (~CA$66k); I just turned it in with around 34k Km on the odometer, I could have purchased out right for around $34k and kept for another 2-3 years with better features.
At around CA$73k fully spec'd, I feel like I got a brand new downgrade that doesn't really have any differences, improvements or worthy changes (same power, same body, in fact the molded floor mats all fit perfectly on the 2023, same everything). Sure, the stitching on the seats is a nice addition, but they also likely cut costs by using fabric on the upholstery instead of the leathery material that was covering the seats on the 2020.

What I received was a truck with less mileage that was objectively more expensive than the one I had and offered less features.

For a vehicle at this price, I feel like it's the little things that make one enjoy the experience. That enjoyable experience instantly died with the 2023 and quickly turned to frustration.

So if you're shopping for an ST, get an older gen (2020/21) or wait to see what they do with the 2024... Aside from minor cosmetic changes, the 2020 and the 2023 are Exactly the same at all levels.
To drive that point home, I pranked my daughter into thinking we just detailed the truck. The only thing that gave the new truck away was the smell and some change in trim colors. She could barely tell the difference; we're talking 2 trucks manufactured 3-4 years apart, separated by 2 "generations".

For me, I feel like these annoyances are going to make me hate my experience with the 2023 ST. All the excitement I had when I drove off the lot with the 2020, I feel the opposite now with this one. The little things that made my 2020ST special are gone and now I'm stuck with the 2023.

To top it all off, nothing to do with the truck itself, but when I spoke to the dealers when I ordered the new truck, they said I had equity in the 2020ST, I was supposed to receive some cash back ($1k-$3k range). Today when I asked about it, market has gone down, it's a "washout" they said.
My experience with Ford today was a disappointment.

Don't get me wrong, I still think it's functionally a fantastic truck, but having an older gen as reference point, and feel that the 2020ST is superior to the 2023ST right off the gate is a major let down.
New owners probably wouldn't notice.

Rant over. Thanks for reading.

Man who told you the 23' was getting Sync4, never was in the books. Our 2020 seemed to have a lot less build quality then our 2022. I don't really miss the little center console, but think the tiny little cupholders in the back of the front center console are useless. Why do you keep saying "2 different generatians"? Also, how is 2 things make the ST a totally different experience. Sadly inflation is there, and it is what it is.

It's not anyone's fault but your own that you didn't know about the current feature list or maybe the dealer if that's who told you about the Sync4. Sounds like the dealer also didn't give you a deal on pricing and shafted you on your trade-in.

But let's talk about the positives. They got rid of a lot of quirks in the early builds. Your 2023 is likely put together better with slightly better materials. The rear subframe in your 2023 is likely the proper one that they botched for many 2021-2022s. Statistically, you will probably have fewer problems. Many of us had had multiple issues with our early MY2020s although certainly many have no problems at all. Maybe you were one of the lucky ones.

The bad? You are going to be soooooo pissed when MY2024 comes out and it turns out to be the mid cycle refresh--complete with better looks, better interior, Sync 4, and new features.

You're both right, SYNC4 was never a thing for the 2023. However SYNC4 was the first thing I asked about when I went to discuss the switch though, it was what the dealer told me 5 months ago when I ordered the truck though before the end of my lease. There wasn't much publicly available information available at the time, so I relied on their input. This was clearly incorrect.

That's fair, our kids used that, it also kept the carpet from getting messy and made things a lot easier to clean. Young children have a tendency to dump a lot of crap all over the floor.

You're right "generations" might not be the right word. "Iterations" might have been preferable.

That's the thing with experiences, they're subjective, hence this post being an opinion based on my personal impressions, and comparing my impressions to what I experienced when I originally got the 2020.
As far as the experience goes, it has to do with the expectations I had before getting the new truck. I was really excited about getting this "iteration" and then realizing that a lot of what are seemingly minor details simply vanished - some of these were important to me.

What bothered me most I would say is the washers/sprayers on the cameras being absent.
I've grown to use the cameras a lot for convenience, both front and back and used the washer to deal with camera visibility issues when dirty. It's actively promoted as a feature to enhance visibility around the car.
Right now it's snowy and lots of crap gets on the cameras, so not being able to clean them, makes the feature of having them in the first place pretty useless unless you're using them in perfect environmental conditions.
It's not like rubber tubing and a plastic sprayer is going to add $5000 to the manufacturing cost...

One could argue I can use the mirrors. Yes, absolutely; but then what's the point of having the feature in the first place.

In my view we're not getting vehicles like the Explorer ST just for functionality, a lot of the premium comes from the details and the experience. I could get a base model and it'll do as good a job taking me from A to B and carrying whatever I put inside.

Fair enough, I didn't encounter too many issues with my 2020 ST in the 3+ years that I had it. The only thing that I had go wrong with it was a snap ring getting lose in the transmission, which caused the truck to stutter when shifting and then the shop taking their sweet time to get that resolved. Other than that, solid driving experience the entire time.

Probably, and at that point, I may just renew my lease early and get the newer package.

As I mentioned in my original post, the 2023 is still a solid vehicle, it seems to behave the same way as the other one. I just feel my 2020 offered more.

What I have issue with is that the dealership didn't address my expectations, hence the disappointment; things are missing that I feel should have been there and that were never stated as omitted. Had I known that things that were important to me were going to be missing, I would have either requested them to be added (for free or for a fee) or I would have played on the price a bit more.

Agreed...

As for the camera washers. The front one was eliminated a long time ago. None of the 2022 had and it might even go back to 2021. The one at the back the nozzle still is there but Ford quit hooking it up so it is not going to work. There is a bullettin out on that so your out of luck there. Later 2022 model is when that started.

I really wish the sales rep had disclosed the information regarding the washers when I specifically asked what were the differences between the 2020 and the 2023 models before I placed the order back in September. I would have opted to keep the 2020 for a couple more years.

As I understand it, the information for the rear washer was only disclosed after I placed my order according to the date on the SSM (https://www.explorerforum.com/forum...ls-tsb-fsa-and-ssm.481543/page-3#post-3974174)...

This only adds to the disappointment, based on what I've been researching, ford has opted to delete a large number of little features from models like these between different years. It's really sad. It cuts the value of the truck, but they're all too happy increasing the prices.

This is all on me for trusting Ford and dealers to actually look out for their customers and focus on value. I should know better.

There ya go regarding your source info..... sales rep..... Their job is to sell you the SUV and hype it, not give you a list of what may or may not come with the SUV. They should be one of the last people to trust regarding info on car's.

Regarding the cut items and higher price sales, its been well known for a while and its not only Ford, its every MFG.

Agree to you that the minute details you were looking into is not easily available in the internet.
You will come to know if only after living with it for while. Or extensive test dive of the one you were going to buy.
(I did 6 long and short test drives before I bought mine, and knew most the things I will be missing from that particular one)

But few things were out there,
1, the tablet screen and Sync 3 is going to continue for 2023 in US
2, A mid cycle refresh is already out there in China.

All manufactures are forced to introduce / delete features for every 'new' Model Year, for multiple reasons.
And frankly, I have not come across a single sales person, who wanted to genuinely help you with a wish/request.
That leaves, the research responsibility back with the buyer.

That's definitely good advice.
One of the problems I had is that the 2023 model was not yet out, so the order was something placed just as it became available at the time my lease for the 2020 expired.

I made assumptions that I shouldn't have and trusted the information I was offered. That's certainly on me.

Back in early September, when I placed the order, I'm not sure there was much of any information regarding the 2023 model. I certainly couldn't find anything that related to SYNC or the rear cam washer feature being deleted (Notice came out in Nov as I understand it). Sure, I missed the front cam washer and the center console piece's deletion from the 2021-2022 versions; somehow I expected I would get that information from the rep.

Lesson learned.

I'm still going to try to have them get those installed, since they hadn't disclosed that information at the time of the purchase, not was it on my pre-order form. And in the worst case, I'll do by the parts and do the install myself.

I feel this post. My lease was ending on my 20' and the dealer told me to order my 23' which I did. I wasn't told items were deleted off..like the center console in the second row, the camera, the captain chairs changed, and the hotspot is gone (that I ordered)..which we use all the time. Do you know when I found out? When the car came in and I had to pick it up 2 days ago. The dealer's response was oh they just delete stuff off and don't tell you. Ford Motor Company said they notify the dealer. I honestly feel deceived and disappointed to spend 5k more and get less. I wish I kept my 20.

added*

I also can't believe the cup holder lights, center console lights, and temp indicators are gone.

What package did you get for your 23? also, are you talking about the front camera? I've never owned an ST, but placed an order for a 23' a few weeks ago. I did test drive a 22 ST which did not have a front camera, no front parking sensor and I did find kind of odd that there was no glove box light. I have a fully loaded 2018 Explorer Sport with 30K mi and it's an awesome suv, I just hope that all the options I selected for my '23 are there when I pick it up.

Hi,

Both my 20 and 23 have sensors all the way around. I can't even imagine why they took out the cup holder lights. I am really upset about the hotspot and 2nd row seats. They shouldn't have the options listed if they can't provide in my opinion.

Mine has the ST High pack, ST Street pack and the ST appreance pack.

I just noticed you're from Jersey also, what Ford dealer did you go with? The one I ordered is similar to yours except for the ST appearance pack. I think I just saw your post on the fb group while looking for misbuild info.

You didn't get the black wheels?? Oh man, thats almost the best part!! I'm in Monmouth County.

Burlington County here. Had to double check, mine said 21" Aluminum Wheels. Hey on the fb group, your initials C.M.?

Totally get your frustration, but Ford is far from the only manufacturer doing this. Not that it will make you feel better but just the way of the world right now. Think of it this, if it bothers you in another year, trade it out for a new 24. Your 23 will have better resale value than the 20 just being newer and less miles.

Haha...I definitely thought about it. With my luck 24 will have a redesign. Lol

I've purchased several from the dealer, I'm not necessarily upset with them...they didn't build it, but, disappointed I wasn't forewarned.

Yes, I'm on a FB group.

Are you sure the 22 you test drove was not the ST-Line?

It was an ST with just the 400a package and street pack. Had a bench seat and the 3rd row manual folding.

I try to avoid the dealership at all costs, but when I do have to go I laugh when they ask if I want to "upgrade" to a 23 model. Nope, I have the Unicorn edition ST....2021, BOV, all the bolts, massaging seats, and all the lights and buttons.