Thinking about buying a 2020 ST

jb. · Feb 21, 2023

Hi. I’m thinking about replacing my current setup of an old 2008 Nissan Xterra and a 2019 Tesla Model 3 with one SUV that’s fun to drive, roomy and can tow. The Explorer ST seems like a good choice and I’ve found what seems like a good deal on one. It’s a 2020, 42k miles, Ford Gold Certified (1yr/12k miles B2B, 7yr/100k powertrain). I drove it the other day and it was pretty great (and fit the fam really well) but it seemed like the transmission was kind of rough when kicking down at lower speeds (like approaching a stop light or going around a corner for a left turn). I’m not 100% it was the shifting because the brakes also seemed a little grabby (which I’ve heard is an issue with these). Coming from a Tesla, I’m also not sure this isn’t just the feel of the 10sp trans (which doesn’t have a reputation as buttery smooth).

The dealership checked it out after I mentioned it and they say it checked out and they pointed out the warranty in case there are issues. On the other hand, I don’t want to buy a problem child so I’m apprehensive. Dealership is very reputable and I’ve dealt with them in the past and always been really happy.

Anyway, I figured I’d register here and tap the collective wisdom. Should I be concerned or send it?

Blue Beast · Feb 21, 2023

jb. said:

Hi. I’m thinking about replacing my current setup of an old 2008 Nissan Xterra and a 2019 Tesla Model 3 with one SUV that’s fun to drive, roomy and can tow. The Explorer ST seems like a good choice and I’ve found what seems like a good deal on one. It’s a 2020, 42k miles, Ford Gold Certified (1yr/12k miles B2B, 7yr/100k powertrain). I drove it the other day and it was pretty great (and fit the fam really well) but it seemed like the transmission was kind of rough when kicking down at lower speeds (like approaching a stop light or going around a corner for a left turn). I’m not 100% it was the shifting because the brakes also seemed a little grabby (which I’ve heard is an issue with these). Coming from a Tesla, I’m also not sure this isn’t just the feel of the 10sp trans (which doesn’t have a reputation as buttery smooth).

The dealership checked it out after I mentioned it and they say it checked out and they pointed out the warranty in case there are issues. On the other hand, I don’t want to buy a problem child so I’m apprehensive. Dealership is very reputable and I’ve dealt with them in the past and always been really happy.

Anyway, I figured I’d register here and tap the collective wisdom. Should I be concerned or send it?

Welcome to the forum.

Cdubya · Feb 21, 2023

If I'm not mistaken, the problem transmissions were notable for a hard downshift from 7 to 6.

Early 2020 shifted poorly and were better with later firmware calibrations. In fact, many modules had updated firmware that corrected problems. Ford even paid dealers to update them on unsold inventory and i believe used inventory? check out:
I https://www.explorerst.org/threads/2020-explorer-aviator-module-updates-by-ford.1394/#post-16114
tell your dealer this concern and try ti have them update any and all available updates to modules.

Other than that, the b2b warranty is short. does not give you a lot of time to find and address problems. not sure you qualify for an official ford extended warranty outside of what they are offering you. I'd inquire about that.

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

Yeah. The B2B is short, but I figure a 3 year old car should have a lot of the gremlins a B2B covers already sorted. I have the service records and it appears they’ve fixed the rear camera… which seems to be the car‘s overriding problem from the service records.

It was a lease return, can tell that from the CarFax. It was also originally sold at this dealer and serviced like clockwork at the dealership.

You’re right that the TSB is 7-6 downshifts.

I‘ll hit the salesman up about promising the module updates. If I had to pay for those updates, what do they cost?

Cdubya · Feb 22, 2023

Likely the camera is NOT fixed. Fix for recall #2 only was available recently...like within the past month. Recall #1 did not fix the blue screen for most. I wouldn't wait until after purchase to get things done. I find it a royal pain, and policy on loaners are becoming tight.

Not sure what module updates would cost out of pocket but it can take several hours and Ford will not update under warranty unless you bring up problems that an update might fix. I think my 5/2019 build had a dozen module updates from then until now. The dealer did some after I brought up some issues with driveability, GPS and power drain. Others I did myself. It definitely makes a huge difference.

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

Yeah, they’re applying the recall fix that just came out pre-purchase. They won’t sell it with an open recall.

I’m trying to get them to promise the rest of the module updates, but I’m getting a lot of pushback that it’s driving normally (in their opinion). I sent them the thread on the module updates, we’ll see what I get back.

The build date on this one is 10/2019 so it’s among the earlier ones, but not a super early example.

TMac · Feb 22, 2023

I'm only a statistic of one, but I have a 2020 with a Feb '20 build date and have not had any of the "common" problems. Have never seen a blue screen, a cracked converter (although that's probably a possibility). I've never had problems shifting. I believe the 7-6 downshift was due to a snap ring on the solenoid that does require repair, but I don't think these were all that widespread. Only problem I've had was the Sync system failing- followed by dead battery. When battery was replaced everything went back to normal- they didn't even update it.

My guess would be if you have the ones that are very early builds, or COVID builds you're more likely to have issues.

Cdubya · Feb 22, 2023

I consider 10/2019 early. That build might be put together a little better than early examples but as far as firmware and parts...probably no different than early builds. As another example, the liftgate will open with a mind of it's own sometimes. Sometimes stopping midway for no reason. People have traced this to the handsfree foot activation and even disabled this. I was one of them. However, after I updated the liftgate module, for the most part, the liftgate is pretty much flawless.

Since 10/2019 is close to my 5/2019 here are the modules need updating (some have been updated more than once in the past 3 years)
APIM, PCM, TCU, AWD, BCM, RGTM, SCMJ, TRM, ACM, IPC, ABS, GSM, IPMA, IPMB, PSCM

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

Yeah. I really don’t want intermittent issues. My experience is that getting those things like “liftgate opens halfway sometimes” fixed is a major pain in the ass.

I just asked the sales guy to show that thread to his service manager and see if they’ll commit to updating anything that needs updates. I can tell he’s getting a little annoyed with me. He’s also mentioned they’ve had several people who want to buy it while I have a deposit on it.

mwinn · Feb 22, 2023

jb. said:

Yeah. I really don’t want intermittent issues. My experience is that getting those things like “liftgate opens halfway sometimes” fixed is a major pain in the ass.

I just asked the sales guy to show that thread to his service manager and see if they’ll commit to updating anything that needs updates. I can tell he’s getting a little annoyed with me. He’s also mentioned they’ve had several people who want to buy it while I have a deposit on it.

Have a real good look at the cats for weld and pipe fractures. I’m on number 3. 2020 with 52k

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

Yeah, I didn't see any issues with the cats. Is it pretty obvious?

mwinn · Feb 22, 2023

jb. said:

In my case it was. Get car on a lift or jack it up. When cold grab pipe after the cat body. Move while looking at the weld. Just looking at the cat may not expose the break at the weld. Enjoy

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

I'm kind of cooling off on the whole ST thing honestly. Which is a bummer. It's a cool car and used it's a reasonable price. I just don't want a problem child. Salesman's out today, so I'm going to think about it some more and reconnect in the morning.

TMac · Feb 22, 2023

jb. said:

This is what happens when you log onto a forum and ask for info! There're always people who have problems with their vehicle who are quick to vent even though they mean the best. Believe it or not, most people who own an ST are happy and have had minimal issues. If you're looking for a 3-row performance SUV, I don't think you can get any better than the ST unless you're willing to pay significantly more. If you find any vehicle that has absolutely no problems in the post Covid, supply chain issue world- let me know. As I posted in another thread recently, log onto a few other vehicle enthusiast sites, check out the problems they are having.

Remember also, you are getting a warranty for a year and especially remember the big $ items are covered under the powertrain warranty- looks like you're covered for another 3 years.

If you want absolute reliability, buy a Camry.

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

TMac said:

LOL... we actually own a Camry. That's my wife's car.

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

It’s actually almost 4 more years of powertrain. The car was initially delivered in December 2019.

DaveG ST · Feb 22, 2023

I would say go ahead with the purchase. I bought mine new in 2020 and had some regrets at first, as it had to be put on a rollback twice in the first year. Dealer got it straight and all is fine now. Most notable with the catalytic converters was the exhaust smell in the cabin. With the b2b warranty you should be fine, as long as there is no deductible. You didn't mention the price, but should be well under $40K.

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

Price is $42k. Around here that’s one of the cheapest STs available. Lower mileage examples exist, but they’re up in the $46k range.

The cheapest one listed has 45k and no CPO warranty and is $39,995.

zdubyadubya · Feb 22, 2023

If you are worried about the transmission (as that would be the only thing that concerns me--everything else is "fixable"; trans and engine stuff is the stuff that leaves you without a car for weeks on end), make sure the "rough" downshifts you are feeling isn't just the rev-matching it does in Sport mode. As you downshift in sport mode coming to a stop, the engine will do little throttle blips that can sometimes be a little jerky. this is normal behavior and not something to worry about.

jb. · Feb 22, 2023

I remember it doing it in normal, but we’re a week out. Im headed back tomorrow to take another drive.

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