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stock sub depth need measurements.

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#1
Hey folks
I installed a 12inch sub recently, and the amplifier I installed has a second channel that is unused. I was thinking of replacing the stock sub to be powered by my second channel. Does anyone have a stock sub they could measure for depth do I can look at what choices exist out there? Thanks
 

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UNBROKEN

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#2
Don’t do that. There are rules to car audio and this breaks all of them.
 

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Thread Starter #3
Don’t do that. There are rules to car audio and this breaks all of them.
Why would you say that? The stock enclosure looks to be about 0.8cuft, the port length is adequate. An externally powered shallow 8" will probably do just fine in there. What "rules" do you think are broken? It's hard to believe anything could sound worse than what's in there now.
 

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Oh I dunno…using 2 different size subs playing different frequencies…cancellations…phase issues…the almost 100% chance you never measured the oem ported enclosure and aren’t actually matching a subs parameters to that enclosure. I could go on….
 

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Thread Starter #5
Oh I dunno…using 2 different size subs playing different frequencies…cancellations…phase issues…the almost 100% chance you never measured the oem ported enclosure and aren’t actually matching a subs parameters to that enclosure. I could go on….
Ummm, ok so many systems use multiple different sized speakers (i.e. house speakers, or I don't know, cars that have subs, 5" doors, 6x9's), frequencies don't change based on the size of the speaker (just what the speaker can handle), cancellations don't occur unless you wired them out of phase, no I never measured the enclosure directly (it's molded so pretty much impossible) but I took the general measurements and it is close to 0.7sqft. Most sealed speaker boxes for subs are between 0.6sqft and 1sqft depending on power requirements and speaker size, which isn't surprising consider this is a built system from an oem audio company. So even assuming the enclosure isn't perfect, the box size is just to ensure you resonate at the peak frequencies with the most efficiency. The box isn't some magical device that makes your speaker work. This is just a family vehicle, not a rolling audiophile car. I appreciate that you are trying to help? I think, but instead of flying in and shitting all over my post with information that isn't really correct, if you know the depth of the speaker, let me know, otherwise, thanks for your input.
 

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You’re right…I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about. Enjoy your exercise in wasting time. Don’t say you weren’t warned when you waste money on dismal results.

This was my ST last weekend…I’m clueless when it comes to car audio.
 

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UNBROKEN

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#7
I can’t not point a few things out.

Ummm, ok so many systems use multiple different sized speakers (i.e. house speakers, or I don't know, cars that have subs, 5" doors, 6x9's), frequencies don't change based on the size of the speaker that’s absolutely what happens. That’s literally why different size speakers exist. (just what the speaker can handle), cancellations don't occur unless you wired them out of phase, wanna bet? And that’s not even getting into electrical vs acoustical phase…which changes at the crossover point. no I never measured the enclosure directly (it's molded so pretty much impossible) but I took the general measurements and it is close to 0.7sqft. Most sealed speaker boxes for subs are between 0.6sqft and 1sqft depending on power requirements and speaker size, which isn't surprising consider this is a built system from an oem audio company. So even assuming the enclosure isn't perfect, the box size is just to ensure you resonate at the peak frequencies with the most efficiency. Nothing about those last few sentences is true or makes any sense. A driver is matched to an enclosure by way of the specs of the driver itself…period. It’s actually science. The box isn't some magical device that makes your speaker work. Except it kinda is…provided the speaker needs a “box” This is just a family vehicle, not a rolling audiophile car. I appreciate that you are trying to help? I think, but instead of flying in and shitting all over my post with information that isn't really correct You may wanna double check who’s wrong, if you know the depth of the speaker, let me know, otherwise, thanks for your input.
 

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Thread Starter #8
I can’t not point a few things out.

Ummm, ok so many systems use multiple different sized speakers (i.e. house speakers, or I don't know, cars that have subs, 5" doors, 6x9's), frequencies don't change based on the size of the speaker that’s absolutely what happens. That’s literally why different size speakers exist. (just what the speaker can handle), cancellations don't occur unless you wired them out of phase, wanna bet? And that’s not even getting into electrical vs acoustical phase…which changes at the crossover point. no I never measured the enclosure directly (it's molded so pretty much impossible) but I took the general measurements and it is close to 0.7sqft. Most sealed speaker boxes for subs are between 0.6sqft and 1sqft depending on power requirements and speaker size, which isn't surprising consider this is a built system from an oem audio company. So even assuming the enclosure isn't perfect, the box size is just to ensure you resonate at the peak frequencies with the most efficiency. Nothing about those last few sentences is true or makes any sense. A driver is matched to an enclosure by way of the specs of the driver itself…period. It’s actually science. The box isn't some magical device that makes your speaker work. Except it kinda is…provided the speaker needs a “box” This is just a family vehicle, not a rolling audiophile car. I appreciate that you are trying to help? I think, but instead of flying in and shitting all over my post with information that isn't really correct You may wanna double check who’s wrong, if you know the depth of the speaker, let me know, otherwise, thanks for your input.
 

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Thread Starter #9
Look, I'm too old to argue with people on the internet, lets just assume I want to ruin my car and burn down the world. But like you, I can't leave well enough alone. If you believe that a frequency which is literally just a wave form with a time period changes based on the speaker size, then you have it. Different speaker sizes produce different frequencies, they don't change them.

I'm not sure what you are confused about with the box vs the driver. I already have the box with a pretty closely known size. I am matching the speaker to the box. Not the other way around. Your point makes no sense. The whole reason I made the post was so I can look for a driver that fits and matches the box. (0.7sqft approx). I am not buying a free air speaker, you are just being silly now.

And yes you have some stickers, and I have engineering degree with 15 years of experience in industrial vibrational control and damping. So I know things too, weeeee we all know things and have cool shit to put on our walls/windows. Hooray Science, or whatever I just wanted to say science too cause it makes me sound cool, or nerdy, I can't tell any more, nerds seem to be cooler these days. Whatever, this is fun.
 

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Look, I'm too old to argue with people on the internet, lets just assume I want to ruin my car and burn down the world. But like you, I can't leave well enough alone. If you believe that a frequency which is literally just a wave form with a time period changes based on the speaker size, then you have it. Different speaker sizes produce different frequencies, they don't change them.

I'm not sure what you are confused about with the box vs the driver. I already have the box with a pretty closely known size. I am matching the speaker to the box. Not the other way around. Your point makes no sense. The whole reason I made the post was so I can look for a driver that fits and matches the box. (0.7sqft approx). I am not buying a free air speaker, you are just being silly now.

And yes you have some stickers, and I have engineering degree with 15 years of experience in industrial vibrational control and damping. So I know things too, weeeee we all know things and have cool shit to put on our walls/windows. Hooray Science, or whatever I just wanted to say science too cause it makes me sound cool, or nerdy, I can't tell any more, nerds seem to be cooler these days. Whatever, this is fun.
Let me type slower…like I usually have to do with engineers to get them to understand things.
Remove the oem enclosure.
Measure for depth and opening size.
Fill it with water.
Yes water.
Measure the volume of water.
Now you know the actual enclosure size.
Now measure the port length and diameter.
Calculate the port volume.
Set the enclosure aside to dry.
Start comparing subs that require that size enclosure, with the same port requirements.
Maybe you get lucky and find something that will actually work.
Also consider sealing the port, measuring the entire volume and hunt down a sub that works with those particular specs.
Then realize the oem enclosure is a cheap, thin POS and not worth the effort.
Then do some research on running different size subs and how they can cancel each other out giving you LESS bass than you started with.
Now spend the same amount of money buying a matching 12 and having a new enclosure built so you’ll actually be happy in the end….because an 8 will not be able to match the output of your 12 and you’re going to wind up with multiple issues that I already covered earlier And FYI if you think say a 3” driver will produce the same frequencies as a 12 with any discernible output…well I can’t help ya.

What you are asking to do it a recipe for failure. Period. You can’t reinvent the wheel no matter how much you think you can.
 

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Thread Starter #11
Yeah, that's great thanks for your input. I never asked for your help, I just asked for depth of the stock sub.
 

UNBROKEN

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So go forth and fail then. Make sure you post the results here so I can giggle.
 

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Thread Starter #13
If I find the time to do it, I'll let you know if works out, or if it's a miserable failure. By the way (I did do a quick Google search to, you know educate myself. But honestly I couldn't find anything that actually explained how any of the stuff you mentioned occurs. Mostly it's just people saying, don't do it, cancellation etc. Nothing concrete. If you have a link post it, I'm always interested in anything wave, phase or fft related.

I am kind of wondering now though, why of this is such an issue, I've never seen recommendations to remove/disconnect the stock sub when installing an aftermarket setup. There are thousands of threads and ready made solutions for a lot of vehicles, but I find think I've ever seen anyone ever suggest to disconnect the stock sub.
 

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#14
If I find the time to do it, I'll let you know if works out, or if it's a miserable failure. By the way (I did do a quick Google search to, you know educate myself. But honestly I couldn't find anything that actually explained how any of the stuff you mentioned occurs. Mostly it's just people saying, don't do it, cancellation etc. Nothing concrete. If you have a link post it, I'm always interested in anything wave, phase or fft related.

I am kind of wondering now though, why of this is such an issue, I've never seen recommendations to remove/disconnect the stock sub when installing an aftermarket setup. There are thousands of threads and ready made solutions for a lot of vehicles, but I find think I've ever seen anyone ever suggest to disconnect the stock sub.
I without fail tell people to remove the oem sub when adding another one.
 

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Thread Starter #15
Then you would be the first I have ever run into on the Webs.
 

UNBROKEN

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Then you would be the first I have ever run into on the Webs.
And I’d bet you’ve never been in a car audio forum. It’s standard practice. In forums like this the knowledgeable people are told they’re wrong and the new guys do whatever they think is right. Sound familiar? lol
 

GearHead_1

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Then you would be the first I have ever run into on the Webs.
Nah, I've got no dog in this fight but eliminating the original when installing a better sub in a different location is often recommended. That's not an UNBOKEN only thing.
 

Cruising68

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Nah, I've got no dog in this fight but eliminating the original when installing a better sub in a different location is often recommended. That's not an UNBOKEN only thing.
I can agree with this. While he might be a little rough around the edges at times [mention]UNBROKEN [/mention] knows his shit about audio IMO.
 

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Thread Starter #19
As I said, I went looking for anything that supported this opinion. It's just a bunch of people saying it's not recommended. But there are just as many that say just use a separate enclosure. I respect his desire for perfection, but that's not my objective. At the end of the day there are many builds with different sized subs that are done by people that have as much experience as him. I just take offense to the condescending attitude in his posts. I don't give a **** who they are. People like that aren't really trying to be helpful.
 

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#20
I did nothing but post factual information. How you receive it is on you…I couldn’t care less about your feelings. I was just trying to save you from an install failure. But go ahead and reinvent that wheel because your feels got stepped on a little bit. Be sure to post the results.
Tell me this…you want to run a 12 and an 8 off 2 channels of the same amp. Those drivers cannot reproduce the same frequencies with the same output. How are you going to “tune” each sub so they actually work right? Lemme save you some time…you can’t. It won’t work. Been saying that since post #2.
 



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