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2020 ST Various Issues - Exhaust / Drivetrain Vibration / Suspension Clunk

4DEPII

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#1
This is my first post here, so hello all! I'm a used-to-be gearhead poking my head in the gearhead void again for the first time in a while. I have a tendency to go deep on modding cars once I start, so trying to dip a toe in could be difficult :)

I've owned my 2020 ST since July of this year. Bought it at about 62K from a dealer my neighbor worked at for many years and I've always had a good working relationship with him/the dealer he worked at and my Fords. He would swap vehicles with me and take it into the dealer for service, whatever. Well, I knew about the possible ST issues before I purchased the vehicle and decided my awesome neighbor would be able to help me work through whatever might arise. Fast forward to about August and my neighbor quit the dealership and is thinking about retiring. This is also about the time that I'd gotten to know my vehicle well enough to know what is an issue on it (and also some issues started getting worse). All these things are still an issue.

I work the opposite direction of the dealership that I bought it from and so I decided to try a new dealership to see how they would treat me. I've got the Ford Gold CPO warranty on the vehicle, so I would obviously like to get as many repairs covered under warranty as possible.

These were my complaints and their responses:
  • Suspension Clunk in front end, especially on gravel roads or quite rough terrain (I said this seemed like a strut mount to me)
    • They came back with telling me that there is a tie rod end that needs to be replaced. This may be the case but I don't think that it is the cause of my clunk
  • Drivetrain vibration - comes and goes, can feel it in the seats and center console. Sometimes, when cruising at higher speeds, like 45-65ish mph, you can hear it more than feel it, there is a low, bass-like, rumble.
    • They said that my front CV boot is ripped. This is true, I'm sure, but the vibrations are not felt through the steering wheel, so I doubt this is the source of my issue.
  • Exhaust leak - I went under the vehicle and can verify that the cats are cracked at the welds but also the pipe on the drivers side cat is cracked about halfway from the bottom of the cat to the mid-pipes
    • They confirmed this, but they also told me that my mid pipes (which definitely have the usual rattle) are going to be destroyed when they replace my cats. They stated that while my cats were covered under warranty the mid pipe (which were in need of replacement anyhow) are NOT covered under my warranty and between parts and labor the total for those will be something like just north of $700. I said to them that at that price I would opt to just put an aftermarket exhaust on it and then take it in for the catalytic replacement. They told me that Ford would not honor the warranty on the cats if I did this. That would NOT seem correct to me, especially since you saw that the cats were damaged with a fully stock vehicle.
  • Transmission whine and shifting issues. There is a moderate to huge amount of "supercharger" whine that occurs during acceleration and between shifts. It's embarrassing, to be honest. Also, sometimes the shifts are jerky due to delay, and sometimes the shifts are quick and harsh. In addition, in certain situations, for example, when accelerating moderately hard in 4th gear, you can feel slippage in the transmission before it ultimately grabs and goes.
    • They didn't tell me anything other than there is a TSB on the issue and they must follow the protocol in order to eventually resolve the issue fully (I'm thinking this will eventually conclude in a full transmission replacement). The first step that they took, I believe, is to reset the transmission strategy. When I picked up the vehicle, I was actually in shock. It worked, the transmission was quieter (not completely normal, I would say, but much improved), seemed to not have the slippage and generally shifted better. The problem, as you guessed it, I'm sure, is that as the transmission re-learned, it got worse again, and it's back to the same place (if not worse) as it originally was.
So, that is a lot, but I'm wondering the following:
  • Does the mid pipe portion of what the dealership is saying make sense? Does this seem reasonable? I feel like if a failed warrantied part being replaced causes a non warrantied part to fail, that non warrantied part should be covered as well. Otherwise, I feel like I should be able to replace it with a non OEM part since it is not a part of the warranty claim anyhow.
  • Regarding the transmission issues, is there any way to expedite this process? I really want to start modding the ST but I'm not willing to pay out of pocket for a transmission replacement when the transmission was messed up to begin with. If I were to burn up a transmission because of mods, that is one thing, but this is a faulty unit, clearly.
  • The JXB Support bearing upgrade - has anyone gotten positive results from this change? I feel like it is the driveshaft that is causing this vibration, and I feel like this could fix or help the issue immensely, but I have concerns about possibly making it worse too?
I'm just feeling stuck at this crossroads and I don't know how to get the best results.

FWIW, I like the ST, it can be a great family hauler while still being sporty and fun while having enough luxury to keep me happy!
 

hbalek

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#2
This is my first post here, so hello all! I'm a used-to-be gearhead poking my head in the gearhead void again for the first time in a while. I have a tendency to go deep on modding cars once I start, so trying to dip a toe in could be difficult :)

I've owned my 2020 ST since July of this year. Bought it at about 62K from a dealer my neighbor worked at for many years and I've always had a good working relationship with him/the dealer he worked at and my Fords. He would swap vehicles with me and take it into the dealer for service, whatever. Well, I knew about the possible ST issues before I purchased the vehicle and decided my awesome neighbor would be able to help me work through whatever might arise. Fast forward to about August and my neighbor quit the dealership and is thinking about retiring. This is also about the time that I'd gotten to know my vehicle well enough to know what is an issue on it (and also some issues started getting worse). All these things are still an issue.

I work the opposite direction of the dealership that I bought it from and so I decided to try a new dealership to see how they would treat me. I've got the Ford Gold CPO warranty on the vehicle, so I would obviously like to get as many repairs covered under warranty as possible.

These were my complaints and their responses:
  • Suspension Clunk in front end, especially on gravel roads or quite rough terrain (I said this seemed like a strut mount to me)
    • They came back with telling me that there is a tie rod end that needs to be replaced. This may be the case but I don't think that it is the cause of my clunk
  • Drivetrain vibration - comes and goes, can feel it in the seats and center console. Sometimes, when cruising at higher speeds, like 45-65ish mph, you can hear it more than feel it, there is a low, bass-like, rumble.
    • They said that my front CV boot is ripped. This is true, I'm sure, but the vibrations are not felt through the steering wheel, so I doubt this is the source of my issue.
  • Exhaust leak - I went under the vehicle and can verify that the cats are cracked at the welds but also the pipe on the drivers side cat is cracked about halfway from the bottom of the cat to the mid-pipes
    • They confirmed this, but they also told me that my mid pipes (which definitely have the usual rattle) are going to be destroyed when they replace my cats. They stated that while my cats were covered under warranty the mid pipe (which were in need of replacement anyhow) are NOT covered under my warranty and between parts and labor the total for those will be something like just north of $700. I said to them that at that price I would opt to just put an aftermarket exhaust on it and then take it in for the catalytic replacement. They told me that Ford would not honor the warranty on the cats if I did this. That would NOT seem correct to me, especially since you saw that the cats were damaged with a fully stock vehicle.
  • Transmission whine and shifting issues. There is a moderate to huge amount of "supercharger" whine that occurs during acceleration and between shifts. It's embarrassing, to be honest. Also, sometimes the shifts are jerky due to delay, and sometimes the shifts are quick and harsh. In addition, in certain situations, for example, when accelerating moderately hard in 4th gear, you can feel slippage in the transmission before it ultimately grabs and goes.
    • They didn't tell me anything other than there is a TSB on the issue and they must follow the protocol in order to eventually resolve the issue fully (I'm thinking this will eventually conclude in a full transmission replacement). The first step that they took, I believe, is to reset the transmission strategy. When I picked up the vehicle, I was actually in shock. It worked, the transmission was quieter (not completely normal, I would say, but much improved), seemed to not have the slippage and generally shifted better. The problem, as you guessed it, I'm sure, is that as the transmission re-learned, it got worse again, and it's back to the same place (if not worse) as it originally was.
So, that is a lot, but I'm wondering the following:
  • Does the mid pipe portion of what the dealership is saying make sense? Does this seem reasonable? I feel like if a failed warrantied part being replaced causes a non warrantied part to fail, that non warrantied part should be covered as well. Otherwise, I feel like I should be able to replace it with a non OEM part since it is not a part of the warranty claim anyhow.
  • Regarding the transmission issues, is there any way to expedite this process? I really want to start modding the ST but I'm not willing to pay out of pocket for a transmission replacement when the transmission was messed up to begin with. If I were to burn up a transmission because of mods, that is one thing, but this is a faulty unit, clearly.
  • The JXB Support bearing upgrade - has anyone gotten positive results from this change? I feel like it is the driveshaft that is causing this vibration, and I feel like this could fix or help the issue immensely, but I have concerns about possibly making it worse too?
I'm just feeling stuck at this crossroads and I don't know how to get the best results.

FWIW, I like the ST, it can be a great family hauler while still being sporty and fun while having enough luxury to keep me happy!
I have personally put 54,500 miles on my 2020 ST and I have had all of these issues you describe and much more! I still love/hate this thing. I have left it at the dealership again for them to try to diagnose the drivettrain shudder/rumble issue. The good news is all of my repairs have been free and under bumper to bumper or powertrain warranty. Unfortunately, my powertrain warranty expires in early December, so my dealership service advisor is taking another crack at resolving my drivetrain/axle issues. After early December, I have a $100 deductible extrended warranty for 2 more years or 85,000 miles.
 

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2020 Ford Explorer ST
#3
All Common failure points, here is what have failed on my 2020 Explorer ST -

Previous owners repairs - 57k miles

1. Cats cracked - replace under warranty
2. Cv shafts went at 50k - grease all over inside of wheels - Replaced by dealership.
3. Midpipes - clamped by dealership due to recall. It did nothing. I just replace them when I put my thermal exhaust on.

Bought April 2023 with 57k - 87.5k now. Taken (4) 1000+ mile Roadtrips

Full fluid change to Amsoil
Replaced Purge valve


I have modded my ST and been lucky so far. The original owner had the headaches. It the Cats where the worst of it.
 

OP
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4DEPII

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Thread Starter #4
Yeah, I know they are all common issues. I also had the "wind noise" on mine which actually was those crumby plastic clips/nuts by the rocker panels that had gone bad and we're moving around when the wind caught the under body panel. That noise was driving me insane.

What bothers me the most is the drivetrain issues. I think I'm going to try the JXB carrier bearing. Today when I was driving it I thought, it sure feels like the driveshaft is just bouncing around under there like crazy. So, maybe it is?

The transmission is a bother because it is faulty and I don't want to mod before it is taken care of.

I can't believe there isn't more info on what fixes the drivetrain thing. Most threads on here about it just say something to the effect of "the dealer tried 9000 things and it isn't fixed" BUT there are a few that say it did get fixed and just about all of them say different things fixed it. Grrrr
 

Cdubya

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#5
Front axle disconnect actuator (FADA) leaks are extremely common for MY2020-2021. I would look under the center plastic cover and see if you have a leak. When bad, it will cover the plastic oil pan as well. Problem is, it leaks front differential oil which there is only 0.6L to begin with. If that oil is low, you certainly may hear signs of it and it also may lead to FADA failure. If you were under warranty, there is a TSB to replace the FADA. It's not cheap to do so. At your mileage OP, I would certainly change all drivetrain fluids.

As far as the exhaust goes, I'd have them only install the catalytic converter down pipes. If your midpipes are intact, they better re-attach those intact! But I would get someone else to install an aftermarket one like the Lethal midpipes. That would still cost you around $700 though. What the dealer says about aftermarket exhausts is true and false. They like to deny warranty if there is any aftermarket related component. Where you are covered is the fact that there is a federal warranty on the catalytic converter.

I will also throw it out there that your 2020 may be on old module firmware. When they say they "reset" the transmission, did they just reset the trans adaptive tables or did they update the firmware to newer, better revisions? The PCM and AWD have had at least 2 revisions since MY2020's came out. Shifting is much better on the latest PCM updates. Still better after a tune.
 

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BrooseDaMoose

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#6
FWIW- If you are going to mod the vehicle, change out the down pipes and exhaust to aftermarket. That's what I did as soon as I bought mine. I went with the SPD 3" down pipes and the Thermal R&D 3" exhaust. It is quite loud though when you get on it. I had the FADA issue within a month of owning the vehicle. It was covered under the powertrain warranty though. As for the JXB bolts, you must have the 4 bolt set up so unless you plan on launching it hard frequently, you should be ok the way it is. Maybe just add a differential brace. These vehicles are know for the transmission fluid level being off right from the factory! Might want to check that.
 

OP
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4DEPII

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Thread Starter #7
I have a differential with the 2 rear and 2 front bolts. I do want to do the steeda pinion bushings and the JXB bushing inserts for the rear BUT that is not what I was talking about.

I'm taking about the driveshaft carrier support/hanger bearing. It seems like it could help based on their videos, but IDK. Was hoping someone had first hand experience with it helping.
 

BrooseDaMoose

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#8
I have a differential with the 2 rear and 2 front bolts. I do want to do the steeda pinion bushings and the JXB bushing inserts for the rear BUT that is not what I was talking about.

I'm taking about the driveshaft carrier support/hanger bearing. It seems like it could help based on their videos, but IDK. Was hoping someone had first hand experience with it helping.
Ok, I’m sorry! I missed that. I would go with the FenFab bushing inserts. Just as good, if not better, and you would be supporting a small business. JMO


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Polizi212

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#9
Bought my Explorer ST Used in June of this yea, with about 40K on the Odometer and a supposed Gold Certified. right off the rip had to have the mid pipe replaced could hear the exhaust leak when I was doing the test drive, 3rd row seats didn't work and various trim pieces were broken or missing. Dealership stepped right up and replaced/ fixed my issues a few weeks after I took delivery. I decided to replace my stock exhaust and went with the Thermal R&D 2.5 inch. well when I was taking it off the other mid pipe had a crack in it so glad I got rid of the ford part. Even though I have replaced the exhaust from the cat back, they said the cat is covered. While I trust my dealership some, I will always get a second opinion on odd clunks and drivetrain issues. an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 

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4DEPII

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Thread Starter #10
Thursday I have an appointment to get the repairs done finally. I've gotten the dealership to agree to put the existing mid-pipes back on no matter what condition they are in when they are done. So, now I'm trying to decide on what aftermarket exhaust to get. I like the Flowmaster or the Thermal R&D. Since this is a family hauler and daily, I really don't want it too loud. I want more than stock but not annoying for road trips and etc. I know thermal is a very popular brand for these, but I do like the sound of flowmaster...
 

BrooseDaMoose

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#11
Thursday I have an appointment to get the repairs done finally. I've gotten the dealership to agree to put the existing mid-pipes back on no matter what condition they are in when they are done. So, now I'm trying to decide on what aftermarket exhaust to get. I like the Flowmaster or the Thermal R&D. Since this is a family hauler and daily, I really don't want it too loud. I want more than stock but not annoying for road trips and etc. I know thermal is a very popular brand for these, but I do like the sound of flowmaster...
If you don’t want any drone, go with the Thermal R&D 2 1/2”. I’ve had their 3” for about 18 months and can tell you there is no drone but it is loud. The 2 1/2” is said to be a lot quieter.


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OP
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4DEPII

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Thread Starter #12
If you don’t want any drone, go with the Thermal R&D 2 1/2”. I’ve had their 3” for about 18 months and can tell you there is no drone but it is loud. The 2 1/2” is said to be a lot quieter.
I saw comparison videos from Steeda about the Thermal R&D exhaust. They were very through. The 2.5" tested quieter than the 3". I also saw feedback from several users of the Flowmaster exhaust that it does drone and is rather loud. So I ordered the 2.5" Thermal R&D.and it will be here Monday.

I had the service done on Thursday. They replaced the Cats and left the existing mid-pipes on. There is a slight leak from the old mid-pipes, but they seemed to be making a big deal out of nothing. They do rattle like crazy though,

The tie rod end seems to have fixed the front end clunk, and actually the CV axle took care of the vast majority of the drivetrain vibration - to the point that i think it's possible the remaining vibrations that I feel infrequently are actually from the crappy stock exhaust.

The main remaining issue is the transmission, of which they did NOTHING with this past time around. It still whines like crazy and is definitely slipping under heavy loads in the mid-rpm range.
 

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4DEPII

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Thread Starter #13
So I've installed the 2.5" Thermal R&D exhaust. It took me an evening after work to do and was very straightforward with basic tools.

The exhaust was a high quality piece. I'm trying to walk a thin line of more aggressive sound and better performance with still keeping the vehicle off the radar of local P.D. and keeping the family happy while riding in it. It's on the loud side of trying to accomplish that. I think it sounds GREAT, don't get me wrong, but when you do anything but a light acceleration it becomes loud quickly. The good news is that it is very close to stock noise levels while cruising around town. Everything everyone says about no drone is true! Under heavy acceleration around 3500 RPM there is what I would call a resonance that makes it fairly loud in the cabin.

All in all, quite happy at the moment. And my black Friday cart is quite full at several vendors. Lol
 



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