All things Hellcat (and other platforms) vs The Explorer

[2PAC]

22 Dodge Charger Hellcat Widebody with air intake and muffler delete. My mods are in my sig - E85 ZFG, full exhaust, intake, HPFP + injectors, etc

On stock pirellis I could see that happening, 40 is still hard to reel in the car on stock tires. 65+ would be more realistic from a traction perspective.

Also if he's running a legmaker intake like many are then he's doing worse than the stock airbox or other options.

I think on radials or possibly ps4's it would be a walk in favor of the charger.

The St's beauty is its launch and first few gears, you definitely need something like a durango/trackhawk because the challenger and charger are uncontrollable from a dig and the gearing/weight on the trx doesn't do it favors from a roll.

I'm going to run my trx against my buddies St and see how both do, he's running whipple ic + downpipes + zfg + bov.

Did you run a trx or trackhawk/durango yet? Interested to see how the St does

 

[ghostfranklin]

On stock pirellis I could see that happening, 40 is still hard to reel in the car on stock tires. 65+ would be more realistic from a traction perspective.

Also if he's running a legmaker intake like many are then he's doing worse than the stock airbox or other options.

I think on radials or possibly ps4's it would be a walk in favor of the charger.

The St's beauty is its launch and first few gears, you definitely need something like a durango/trackhawk because the challenger and charger are uncontrollable from a dig and the gearing/weight on the trx doesn't do it favors from a roll.

I'm going to run my trx against my buddies St and see how both do, he's running whipple ic + downpipes + zfg + bov.

Did you run a trx or trackhawk/durango yet? Interested to see how the St does

Traction was fine, no marks laid down but I did forget to turn off Advanced Trac too. Need to data log for Adam running a little rich and there's a little more power he wanted to put in anyway after the trans broke it.

Haven't found any (trackhawks/trx) willing to run. Got a run against a 2022 ZL1 1LE Camaro coming up soon.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

@DetroitST Not bad for ~$3,000 in mods. Bone stock TRX's run mid 12's to the ST's high 13's. Be careful though, there are tuned mid 10 sec TRX's out there!

 

[2PAC]

I've raced 2 TRX's while I was fully loaded with tools both times and won by more than a car each time.

Yeah I definitely think gearing is in favor of the St here, stop light to stop light the trx might win but after 65-70 the truck just isn't geared to run for much longer.

 

[2PAC]

Traction was fine, no marks laid down but I did forget to turn off Advanced Trac too. Need to data log for Adam running a little rich and there's a little more power he wanted to put in anyway after the trans broke it.

Haven't found any (trackhawks/trx) willing to run. Got a run against a 2022 ZL1 1LE Camaro coming up soon.

Zl1 1le should be nice, that car is made for the track tho, the aero will slow it down. As far as advanced track I dont think it really matters at 40 yet, you start putting more mods on and it will def cut power.

Still waiting on my trx, picked up an m8 as well.

The m8 is gonna shred the St tho unfortunately, I'm still interested to see how the St will do both launch and rolls.

M8 0-60 is 2.6-2.9 and capable of running 10s on the street.

I would like to find an explorer more heavily modded w/turbos to run against the m8, but I don't know if many have went that far yet.

 

[ghostfranklin]

Zl1 1le should be nice, that car is made for the track tho, the aero will slow it down. As far as advanced track I dont think it really matters at 40 yet, you start putting more mods on and it will def cut power.

Still waiting on my trx, picked up an m8 as well.

The m8 is gonna shred the St tho unfortunately, I'm still interested to see how the St will do both launch and rolls.

M8 0-60 is 2.6-2.9 and capable of running 10s on the street.

I would like to find an explorer more heavily modded w/turbos to run against the m8, but I don't know if many have went that far yet.

Yea, I think I've got the ZL1 1LE. Advanced trac would have only affected my launch gear slightly maybe 10-15% power reduction nothing crazy. There's not much left for me to do except turbos and I'm not sure I wan't to go that far, especially if it means running an ~E50/E60 blend (I prefer the convenience of E85 at the pump). When nostrum releases stage 2 injectors I may consider it but I'm not sure I'm willing to trade off the power for longevity. I feel I'm already pushing the limits of what the stock block can handle reliably and to be honest it's a ton of power and fun where its at right now since I can get it all to the ground.

I do think one of the guys running CR/Pure turbos with all supporting mods would give the M8 a run for their money

 

[2PAC]

Yea, I think I've got the ZL1 1LE. Advanced trac would have only affected my launch gear slightly maybe 10-15% power reduction nothing crazy. There's not much left for me to do except turbos and I'm not sure I wan't to go that far, especially if it means running an ~E50/E60 blend (I prefer the convenience of E85 at the pump). When nostrum releases stage 2 injectors I may consider it but I'm not sure I'm willing to trade off the power for longevity. I feel I'm already pushing the limits of what the stock block can handle reliably and to be honest it's a ton of power and fun where its at right now since I can get it all to the ground.

I do think one of the guys running CR/Pure turbos with all supporting mods would give the M8 a run for their money

Yeah that's the thing, most doing mods stop short of the turbos because of having to start touching the block and messing with longevity.

The other thing is finding somebody with mods done, I have seen very few with the turbos and supporting mods.

The zl1 1le will basically be a slower hellcat from a roll, those aero pieces are massive and will slow it down.

Yeah the biggest thing I have noticed is that the hellcat is so much more fun on radials, when they hook they are gone, the spinning is no fun when you are lined up. I drove my buddies redeye with MT's and it hooks from a dead stop and you can feel all of that power, it's a good feeling. As far as my mods on the St I stopped at the 93 tune + whipple + valved exhaust because of the one bolt rear subframe, if they remedy it I'll probably go a tad bit further and stop to preserve its use as a daily driver.

 

[PlatinumST]

Hey guys, there have been some interspersed conversations and comments about the various Hellcat platforms (and others) vs the Explorer. I thought this would be a great place consolidate and share thoughts, discuss and post videos all in one place!

Ready...GO!

 

[TMac]

Good job cleaning up your thread!

 

[PlatinumST]

Good job cleaning up your thread!

Thanks, interesting stuff to be sure. I'm hoping we'll get more conversation here instead

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

Why on earth are people comparing either a Hellcat Challenger (starting at 68k) or a Hellcat Charger (starting at $77k) or an SUV Hellcat (no longer produced in 2022 but cost nearly $100k in 2021) to a 400 hp ST that starts at $48,245?

Honestly, it's not even a discussion I'd get into.

 

[Cruising68]

Why not? A tuned ST performs pretty well IMO.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

Sure ST's perform well when tuned. Any forced induction vehicle will make more power with a tune because of boost (the Hellcat will also make tons more hp with a tune).

But Power & Warranty is a different story, and that costs bucks. That's where the now defunct 11 sec Hellcat Durango/Jeep Trackhawk came in, and that's they had a sticker price of $100k compared to our ST's $49k.

Don't get me wrong, I think our ST is a great vehicle that does everything well (power/style/mpg etc.) for a great price. That's why I bought one!

 

[Rocketw19]

Why on earth are people comparing either a Hellcat Challenger (starting at 68k) or a Hellcat Charger (starting at $77k) or an SUV Hellcat (no longer produced in 2022 but cost nearly $100k in 2021) to a 400 hp ST that starts at $48,245?

Honestly, it's not even a discussion I'd get into.

I have both and your right its not even a comparison. my ST is only 2 weeks old only mod is tinted windows lol but my Trackhawk is modded pretty decent im in CA so I didnt go crazy with pulley size I went 3.1 instead of the 2.72 most run. my buddy has a local shop that tunes all cars but his thing is hellcat motors and his jeep is in the 9s only way a ST gets in the 9s is if you buy a new motor.
now dont get me wrong I am not bashing the ST its actually my favorite car. I am selling my TH and keeping ST. the TH is to small its only purpose is street racing the ST is so so so much more comfy and better looking IMO. (specially after I am done with mine)
Ive never raced myself but if ANY ST is in norcal we can make some runs on the street or at sac raceway. you are also correct I paid 93K for my TH and that was 10K off sticker in 2019 before people knew what they were now your gonna pay a lot more. another reason the TH is going I can get my money back now and like I said its to small my arm smashed up against the B pillar sucks.

 

[2PAC]

I have both and your right its not even a comparison. my ST is only 2 weeks old only mod is tinted windows lol but my Trackhawk is modded pretty decent im in CA so I didnt go crazy with pulley size I went 3.1 instead of the 2.72 most run. my buddy has a local shop that tunes all cars but his thing is hellcat motors and his jeep is in the 9s only way a ST gets in the 9s is if you buy a new motor.
now dont get me wrong I am not bashing the ST its actually my favorite car. I am selling my TH and keeping ST. the TH is to small its only purpose is street racing the ST is so so so much more comfy and better looking IMO. (specially after I am done with mine)
Ive never raced myself but if ANY ST is in norcal we can make some runs on the street or at sac raceway. you are also correct I paid 93K for my TH and that was 10K off sticker in 2019 before people knew what they were now your gonna pay a lot more. another reason the TH is going I can get my money back now and like I said its to small my arm smashed up against the B pillar sucks.

I have both as well. (Charger and the St.... if you want to count the trx I guess that one as well)

It's honestly fun to do runs with people who know what they are doing.

It allows people to benchmark different performance markers and see how vehicles line up against each other.

Obviously it's not everyone's cup of tea but some guys like to modify their car, this kind of friendly competition allows guys to see their progress and gives others benchmarks to see how far they want to go.

The St is also better compared to the durango, the grand cherokee is smaller than the explorer.

 

[Rocketw19]

I have both as well. (Charger and the St.... if you want to count the trx I guess that one as well)

It's honestly fun to do runs with people who know what they are doing.

It allows people to benchmark different performance markers and see how vehicles line up against each other.

Obviously it's not everyone's cup of tea but some guys like to modify their car, this kind of friendly competition allows guys to see their progress and gives others benchmarks to see how far they want to go.

The St is also better compared to the durango, the grand cherokee is smaller than the explorer.

Yes I 100% get it if this were the case but so many people don’t do it as a friendly comp. I moderate at the jeep TrackHawk board and it’s constant ST guys and other coming on to troll with some video of their favorite car beating a TH. Amd don’t get me wrong TH owners do the same it’s always a TH racing a Lambo Uris.
half the time they just did a ricer fly by. Then talk about how the Uris didn’t want none of this hawk lmao it insane. The Uris guy probably had no clue what you were doing nor would most of Uris owners care.
so this is what is see all the time from every type of car - truck and SUV their are very few like you. I wish more

 

[midnightSun]

The Trackhawk has 376 cu in vs 180 cu in. If you simply double the engine size of the ST the Trackhawk doesn't look so good because its down 100hp stock. No replacement for displacement though. The TrackHawk will always have more potential.

 

[2PAC]

Yes I 100% get it if this were the case but so many people don’t do it as a friendly comp. I moderate at the jeep TrackHawk board and it’s constant ST guys and other coming on to troll with some video of their favorite car beating a TH. Amd don’t get me wrong TH owners do the same it’s always a TH racing a Lambo Uris.
half the time they just did a ricer fly by. Then talk about how the Uris didn’t want none of this hawk lmao it insane. The Uris guy probably had no clue what you were doing nor would most of Uris owners care.
so this is what is see all the time from every type of car - truck and SUV their are very few like you. I wish more

Yeah 100% with it, people have d!ck measuring contests or wanna sh*t on other people's cars.

I used to want to be the biggest and baddest with my '17 hellcat but seeing some of its competitors I quickly realized there's always someone who's bigger, dropped more on mods, etc etc

I'm also not a brand nut, I like anything that goes fast and for stock suvs even the stock explorer St is faster than 90-95% of what you will see on the street everyday, so you can only imagine what a good tune on a turbo engine and some supporting mods will do.

I see the behavior you talk about in trx fb groups, explorer fb groups, etc etc I usually ignore them because many walk around like they have something to prove, imo if you have a 6,7, or eight hundred horsepower there's nothing to prove out on the street, anything over 500 hp and you really need a safe space to run these kinds of cars anyways but alas not everyone thinks this way and thus you have people ruining conversations, getting into arguments on forums, fb groups, in person meets, etc etc.

 

[2PAC]

The Trackhawk has 376 cu in vs 180 cu in. If you simply double the engine size of the ST the Trackhawk doesn't look so good because its down 100hp stock. No replacement for displacement though. The TrackHawk will always have more potential.

Well to be fair in the case of the explorer I'm not so sure it would be producing these kinds of numbers on a supercharger, it's really an apples to oranges comparison in terms of motors yes they are both forced induction but you have v6 vs v8, supercharger versus turbocharger, etc etc

I personally think ford underrated these cars for marketing purposes, I'm very confident had ford run a more aggressive tune it could pull about 450-475 hp stock and close to 500 lb ft torque. The fact that we can get so much out of a simple tune shows how conservative the tune was.

In this regard ford failed, I almost think ford did a half assed job in this category, and it wouldn't be so far fetched to be doing 0-60 in 4.5-4.7 on that more aggressive ford tune.

 

[TMac]

Well to be fair in the case of the explorer I'm not so sure it would be producing these kinds of numbers on a supercharger, it's really an apples to oranges comparison in terms of motors yes they are both forced induction but you have v6 vs v8, supercharger versus turbocharger, etc etc

I personally think ford underrated these cars for marketing purposes, I'm very confident had ford run a more aggressive tune it could pull about 450-475 hp stock and close to 500 lb ft torque. The fact that we can get so much out of a simple tune shows how conservative the tune was.

In this regard ford failed, I almost think ford did a half assed job in this category, and it wouldn't be so far fetched to be doing 0-60 in 4.5-4.7 on that more aggressive ford tune.

I agree with most of the statements you've been making, and it's actually a breath of fresh air from those who are constantly bitching about a vehicle they theoretically researched, test drove, and finally purchased in lieu of using that same money for the down payment on a home. (Waaah, my expensive Fook Mi 16" phone won't fit in the cubby!)

I would disagree with one of your points- certainly Ford left something on the table when it came to the tune, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing 80-100hp gains. However, "half-assed" is not how I would assess it. If you had a business that could be completely destroyed by warranty claims, you'd probably want a pretty nice margin between a bleeding edge tune and something that has to work for people from huge variances in different climates, altitudes, octane numbers, quality of fuel, and maintenance. Wouldn't you?

The average joe isn't filling up his ST with 93. Just look at some of the posts on this site- a supposed enthusiast site. Nor is it possible that everyone even has access to it. And let's be clear about this- even though the number of feedback mechanisms for knock detection, IAT, EGT, wide-band etc, is pretty friggin sophisticated on these engines, when the cutbacks occur due to poor gasoline and it drops a ton of hp to preserve the engine, the average joe is just going to bitch and trouble the service dept at his local dealer who is clueless. So isn't it better that they leave a bit on the table for those who are willing to put the extra bucks into the tune, fuel quality, etc so they don't have to replace engines or listen to whiners?