Considering 2025 ST but concerned with reliability

[Losxc451]

Currently own a 2021 X3 M and wife has a 2018 Mazda CX9. Was looking to replace the CX9 for her with a similar size car and stumbled across the ST, which has led us to think of replacing both cars. I would daily the ST and get her a smaller SUV which would be easier for her to drive. The ST can then be used for road trips and what not with our two kids around 2 and 4 yrs old) or whenever we need to use a larger car.

However while doing some research have found many people having major issues in these cars. Have also found the opposite of people who just did regular maintenance and had high mileage with no problems. Has anyone experienced any major issues that would cause them to not recommend purchasing one? Seems to be a toss up and unfortunately this is the only car in my current price range that ticks all the boxes. Many issues I came across were significant repairs requiring new motors, transmissions, etc.

Hoping to be swayed to getting one lol. X3 M has been great but it makes compromises to be a very sporty SUV that make it a not great family car and can be a bit uncomfortable at times. Love the idea of having a car I drive on family outings or road trips that I enjoy driving. Unfortunately any other larger performance SUVs are out of my current price range.

Part me is thinking just do it since it’ll have warranty, but also don’t want to be inconvenienced by having to take it in for repairs regularly or worse be doing a road trip with wife and two kids and get stranded on the road having to deal with a tow or repair.

 

[UNBROKEN]

Stop reading the Internet and go buy the car you want. Every manufacturer has issues but the only thing you’re going to find online is people bitching. People that have no issues generally don’t talk about it.

 

[Losxc451]

Stop reading the Internet and go buy the car you want. Every manufacturer has issues but the only thing you’re going to find online is people bitching. People that have no issues generally don’t talk about it.

yes, that seems to be the general consensus. I also believe that although quality control on cars has gone down, most issues seem to be tech related (sensors, general electronics, etc)

Will get a test drive done soon while I am still doing research.

 

[powerboatr]

Stop reading the Internet and go buy the car you want. Every manufacturer has issues but the only thing you’re going to find online is people bitching. People that have no issues generally don’t talk about it.

Ditto
Buy ford esp warranty for 100k miles at least
All manufacturers have issues
I am on my 14th ford since 1988
I could list on 9 fingers the number of warranty issues...only one left me stranded
Waiting on a tow truck , and it was a stupid vapor canister purge valve in a 2010 f150
I think that's dammmm good
That's not to say stuff d8dnt break.
I am saying items that used my extended warranty or intial warranty
Little stuff I fixed ...I do mean 3 minute stuff

 

[Losxc451]

Ditto
Buy ford esp warranty for 100k miles at least
All manufacturers have issues
I am on my 14th ford since 1988
I could list on 9 fingers the number of warranty issues...only one left me stranded
Waiting on a tow truck , and it was a stupid vapor canister purge valve in a 2010 f150
I think that's dammmm good
That's not to say stuff d8dnt break.
I am saying items that used my extended warranty or intial warranty
Little stuff I fixed ...I do mean 3 minute stuff

Thanks, appreciate the input especially from a long term Ford owner!

 

[Losxc451]

Seems many issues are more on 2020-2021 (I assume start of production) so that does give me some more confidence in the platform.

 

[Cdubya]

Past the factory warranty, I'd much rather have an ST than X3 M. In theory, the 2025's should be pretty reliable, having benefitted from all the changes they've made the past 5 years. It also has the magically combo of comfort and performance that few 3 row SUVs have, that is also relatively affordable. As a family vehicle, it is roomy enough and is great on road trips with the lane centering/intelligent cruise control. I'm sure Blue Cruise will make that even better but too rich for my blood.

 

[Losxc451]

Past the factory warranty, I'd much rather have an ST than X3 M. In theory, the 2025's should be pretty reliable, having benefitted from all the changes they've made the past 5 years. It also has the magically combo of comfort and performance that few 3 row SUVs have, that is also relatively affordable. As a family vehicle, it is roomy enough and is great on road trips with the lane centering/intelligent cruise control. I'm sure Blue Cruise will make that even better but too rich for my blood.

I do agree there on the X3M out of warranty. It is a very solid vehicle but repair costs will be hefty due to parts I am sure. Although BMW has gotten better with that due to having similar motors across many cars. Even motor replacement cost of the S58 engine in it is not absurd compared to the RS3 I had before it.
Thanks for the input!!

 

[powerboatr]

I will add most
Vehicles built now, and even back 10 years are more and more advanced, in safety, and via odb loggers and for ford's. Forscsn
We generally can see possible impending issues or failure points. Not as bad as HAL
Lane centering, adaptive cruise with stop and go. Auto emergency braking, collision avoidance etc ..for me are excellent features.
Makes long drives more enjoyable
Gives you a helper as it were.
Most new vehicles have this...I wouldn't buy a new one without it, no matter the brand

 

[3rdExplorer1stST]

(Knocking on the wood)
I’ve had my 2025 for two months and 3K miles, no issues so far. Enjoyed the ease of bluecruise for 2/3 of my trip from MN to IL for Thanksgiving, would have been more but part of the route was not mapped. Really appreciate the ability to get around someone quickly, when you “need” to.

 

[Caster]

Stop reading the Internet and go buy the car you want. Every manufacturer has issues but the only thing you’re going to find online is people bitching. People that have no issues generally don’t talk about it.

Reviews are huge. Not many peoiple buy things anymore without reading reviews first. Telling this guy to disregard reviews is total BS advise. No one wants to read the good reviews anyway because there aren't any issues to complain about. Most of us want to read the poor reviews to see what we may be getting into beforehand. Yeah, all vehicles have issues but some more than others. The reviews distinguish them.

 

[UGADawg96]

It's a Ford.

It'll be less reliable than the Mazda (or any Honda/Subaru/Toyota).
It'll be cheaper to repair out of warranty than the BMW.
It'll have worse body panel and interior/exterior trim alignments than any of the above.

But, it'll be fast as snot and fun to drive.

 

[Grabber]

This all depends on you.

If you have deep pockets, get something other than an ST if you want a luxury vehicle with all of the trimmings.

Coming from a 16' Durango R/T I bought new and owned for 7 years, my 20' ST is a rattle can that has had its share of issues. Already replaced the front axle seal after 50K miles, plugs were shot, fluids were low and bad, battery already gave out and bought a new one. That said, the ST is faster and sportier and I enjoy it thoroughly.

I too, have been looking at something other than an ST, that I consider to be an upgrade in many respects. I.E., a used X5MC, will mop the floor with most modded STs in stock form, and the quality is lightyears ahead. Sure, the MSRP is double that of an ST, but used for used, STs are about 20-30K less and most dump that into mods, only to run high 10's. In terms of the X3MC, several people have run glory times and have gone 9's with bolt-ons on stock turbos. Sure, it is a bit smaller than an ST, but the quality and reliability are there.

Find what you like and want, and go from there.

 

[enphor]

This all depends on you.

If you have deep pockets, get something other than an ST if you want a luxury vehicle with all of the trimmings.

Coming from a 16' Durango R/T I bought new and owned for 7 years, my 20' ST is a rattle can that has had its share of issues. Already replaced the front axle seal after 50K miles, plugs were shot, fluids were low and bad, battery already gave out and bought a new one. That said, the ST is faster and sportier and I enjoy it thoroughly.

I too, have been looking at something other than an ST, that I consider to be an upgrade in many respects. I.E., a used X5MC, will mop the floor with most modded STs in stock form, and the quality is lightyears ahead. Sure, the MSRP is double that of an ST, but used for used, STs are about 20-30K less and most dump that into mods, only to run high 10's. In terms of the X3MC, several people have run glory times and have gone 9's with bolt-ons on stock turbos. Sure, it is a bit smaller than an ST, but the quality and reliability are there.

Find what you like and want, and go from there.

I thought of all the options around BMW and how stupid easy it is to get monster power , plus out of the box handling is all already there. Powertrains are usually super beefy stock already if you pick the right model/engine combos as well to handle extra gobs of power unlike the ST. With all that in mind I still went with ST because its not a european luxury brand. Those german lux SUV's cost an arm and a leg to fix when something inevitably breaks. I have known many owners and they all say don't own them past warranty. Now start modding them and kiss warranty goodbye and you are on the hook. In addition to exorbitant parts costs, labor is usually much higher as well due to how much of a pain and the ass they are to work on.

Comes down to a $$ function really. If you have the dough and don't mind the risk. There are used BMWs around with some sick motors ready for a big turbo upgrade and 600+HP.

 

[Grabber]

I thought of all the options around BMW and how stupid easy it is to get monster power , plus out of the box handling is all already there. Powertrains are usually super beefy stock already if you pick the right model/engine combos as well to handle extra gobs of power unlike the ST. With all that in mind I still went with ST because its not a european luxury brand. Those german lux SUV's cost an arm and a leg to fix when something inevitably breaks. I have known many owners and they all say don't own them past warranty. Now start modding them and kiss warranty goodbye and you are on the hook. In addition to exorbitant parts costs, labor is usually much higher as well due to how much of a pain and the ass they are to work on.

Comes down to a $$ function really. If you have the dough and don't mind the risk. There are used BMWs around with some sick motors ready for a big turbo upgrade and 600+HP.

On the contrary, the new models of the X3M and X5M platforms are super reliable. The X3M has similar, sometimes less of a repair cost than an ST. The X5M, however, with the air suspension and other features, it gets expensive. The suspension alone is an easy 5K out of warranty. For instance, my front axle seal on the drivers side was $2,400 from Ford, but thankfully an aftermarket warranty covered it. This is a domestic car that should have low costs, as it was about a 4 hour job with $200 in parts.

X3M's with a tune and down pipes are making over 650HP and the X5M's with similar mods are making closer to 800HP. The motors and drivetrains can handle abuse of about 1K HP, but it will be borrowed time. As long as maintenance is done, it is not uncommon for the newer models to last hundreds of thousands of miles with hard driving. Sure, some parts will fail, that's like any car. I too, was scared of BMW's and the added costs, but after a LOT of time on forums, talking to people, my fears have been put at ease. Honestly, seeing the cost of ST parts is absolutely bonkers.

$400 for an OEM battery, $700 to install spark plugs from Ford, a new transmission from Ford is 10K out of warranty, a motor is double that, etc.

Money will always be the deciding factor, so get what you can afford and what makes you happy.

 

[BrooseDaMoose]

On the contrary, the new models of the X3M and X5M platforms are super reliable. The X3M has similar, sometimes less of a repair cost than an ST. The X5M, however, with the air suspension and other features, it gets expensive. The suspension alone is an easy 5K out of warranty. For instance, my front axle seal on the drivers side was $2,400 from Ford, but thankfully an aftermarket warranty covered it. This is a domestic car that should have low costs, as it was about a 4 hour job with $200 in parts.

X3M's with a tune and down pipes are making over 650HP and the X5M's with similar mods are making closer to 800HP. The motors and drivetrains can handle abuse of about 1K HP, but it will be borrowed time. As long as maintenance is done, it is not uncommon for the newer models to last hundreds of thousands of miles with hard driving. Sure, some parts will fail, that's like any car. I too, was scared of BMW's and the added costs, but after a LOT of time on forums, talking to people, my fears have been put at ease. Honestly, seeing the cost of ST parts is absolutely bonkers.

$400 for an OEM battery, $700 to install spark plugs from Ford, a new transmission from Ford is 10K out of warranty, a motor is double that, etc.

Money will always be the deciding factor, so get what you can afford and what makes you happy.

Those prices are a bit off:
Interstate Battery- $285 (Easy enough job to do yourself)
Spark Plugs- Cost me $390 to have my mechanic install a set of colder plugs
New Transmission- I was quoted $5,900 to replace the transmission, parts & labor (Ford ended up covering it under warranty)
Not sure about the engine but I doubt it's $20K

These vehicles have their share of issues but, as has been mentioned, people don't tend to talk about their good experiences as much they do bad experiences. My 2020 has 45K on it and I've only had a few minor problems, for example: AWD module, front half-shaft speed sensor, transfer case actuator seal. The transmission was fine until I had it serviced by an incompotent dealership.

 

[enphor]

On the contrary, the new models of the X3M and X5M platforms are super reliable. The X3M has similar, sometimes less of a repair cost than an ST. The X5M, however, with the air suspension and other features, it gets expensive. The suspension alone is an easy 5K out of warranty. For instance, my front axle seal on the drivers side was $2,400 from Ford, but thankfully an aftermarket warranty covered it. This is a domestic car that should have low costs, as it was about a 4 hour job with $200 in parts.

X3M's with a tune and down pipes are making over 650HP and the X5M's with similar mods are making closer to 800HP. The motors and drivetrains can handle abuse of about 1K HP, but it will be borrowed time. As long as maintenance is done, it is not uncommon for the newer models to last hundreds of thousands of miles with hard driving. Sure, some parts will fail, that's like any car. I too, was scared of BMW's and the added costs, but after a LOT of time on forums, talking to people, my fears have been put at ease. Honestly, seeing the cost of ST parts is absolutely bonkers.

$400 for an OEM battery, $700 to install spark plugs from Ford, a new transmission from Ford is 10K out of warranty, a motor is double that, etc.

Money will always be the deciding factor, so get what you can afford and what makes you happy.

Would be the first time anyone has tried to tell me that repair costs on a BMW are comparable to a Ford. That being said I can understand that domestic vehicles are catching up to the "hostile to repair" category that luxury german cars have been in for while now which drives up labor costs significantly. Simple problems that should be a few hours for the repair are now double or triple time due to shit designs and repair-ability being an afterthought.

I searched around for X3M versus ST engine and transmission replacements, and I've been turning up that the ST is near half the costs on many major things. Ford dealer will nearly always be the most expensive. $700 for plugs? its not a Subaru!

 

[Grabber]

Would be the first time anyone has tried to tell me that repair costs on a BMW are comparable to a Ford. That being said I can understand that domestic vehicles are catching up to the "hostile to repair" category that luxury german cars have been in for while now which drives up labor costs significantly. Simple problems that should be a few hours for the repair are now double or triple time due to shit designs and repair-ability being an afterthought.

I searched around for X3M versus ST engine and transmission replacements, and I've been turning up that the ST is near half the costs on many major things. Ford dealer will nearly always be the most expensive. $700 for plugs? its not a Subaru!

May surprise you, but it is true.

Both a private shop and Ford quoted me $700 for spark plug replacements. $100 for plugs, labor intensive for the difference. $2,400 on an axle seal for my ST, which is half the price of complete suspension on an X5M. Makes you wonder.

Granted, German cars will always run a premium, but a domestic car should never be over half the cost of a foreign car. As you said, domestics are catching up fast to foreign car parts and repairs, and it is sickening.

Parts are also expensive on domestic cars in the aftermarket scene, which is nearly identical to german counter parts. Tunes for 95% of domestic cars were always $500. Now, my old Dodge Durango R/T was $2,000 for a TUNE. The ST is $1,000 for a tune and device.

Overall, it really depends on the issue. Aftermarket trannys on ST's are almost 10K, not including install/tuning. OEM is about 6K on the ST, and OEM on an X3M is about 6K as well, through ZF. Pretty much dead even for a domestic car vs. a foreign car.

ST engine shows about 14K online, and an X3M is about 20K, so that is a big difference.

Either way, car prices and parts are outrageous these days.

 

[Cruising68]

IMO, buying any brand is a crap shoot these days. Lemons across all manufactures. Yes the numbers change across them all but that rarely drives my decision. Odds on an individual purchase being trouble free or problem prone is not big difference imo. Having said that, I have always done all my own mechanical work including pulling motors and swapping my 3 bolt subframe to 4 bolt.

I generally buy what I like. I also have only bought American cars my whole life. My wife, on the other hand, loves her Benz. Parts a little more expensive but not any harder to work on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Losxc451]

Thanks everyone for the input. Have decided to skip on the ST for now and stick with the X3M. The X3M has been very solid and parts for regular maintenance have been reasonable thus far. (I haven't paid $700 for spark plugs including labor). Have had the car nearly two years now and not a single thing has broken on it. Only thing I've done is a couple of oil changes and spark plugs (not needed, but opted to do them early).

May revisit in a year or so if I am in a position where I can afford a fun weekend car and get the ST as a daily work truck thats still fun to drive.