E85 Question

[IM A NYR 3]

I've heard about the E85 tuning. I know the tune includes the High Flow fuel pump.

Outside of needing a fuel pump upgrade, Why is the Explorer St not advised to run E85? The manual doesn't allow for the use of E85, and I don't want to void my warranty. Is it the degradation of hoses, parts, etc that is ok with E15 but not E85? That usually the reason they don't want you to go higher than E10.

If possible, is there someone from Ford that can chime in as well??

 

[Novagunner]

it could be that they make too much power with higher ethanol blends and Ford won't want to cover breakage from additional wear of 100+ more hp.

 

[UNBROKEN]

You need a pump that can support the volume needed to run E85 straight...the oem pump can’t handle it.

 

[LokiWolf]

Anybody who says that the hoses and fittings can't handle above E15 is stuck in the 90's and doesn't actually understand chemistry. All manufacturers have switched to materials now that have ZERO issue with higher than E15 Ethanol contents.

Like @UNBROKEN said, the pumps flow and tuning are the limit. Ford doesn't want to risk damage on a Turbo vehicle if the tuning doesn't sense the difference correctly. Also, more power, but less MPG. The average user it would be wasted on. There are several Ford vehicles out there now that can run Full E85(Not recommended by Ford) without a Pump upgrade. Some of those include the 2019+ Edge ST, and the 2.7L F-150's.

You can run an E85 Tune on the Stock Pump at least from ZFG. It is not a full bore E85 tune. It is faster than a 93 tune(a few 100ths in 0-60, and a 10th in the 1/4), but much slower than an E50 tune. It does come with the advantage of no mixing though. To run Full bore E85 you need an aftermarket pump like the XDI's, but once installed you cannot run the Factory tune.

 

[zdubyadubya]

Anybody who says that the hoses and fittings can't handle above E15 is stuck in the 90's and doesn't actually understand chemistry. All manufacturers have switched to materials now that have ZERO issue with higher than E15 Ethanol contents.

Like @UNBROKEN said, the pumps flow and tuning are the limit. Ford doesn't want to risk damage on a Turbo vehicle if the tuning doesn't sense the difference correctly. Also, more power, but less MPG. The average user it would be wasted on. There are several Ford vehicles out there now that can run Full E85(Not recommended by Ford) without a Pump upgrade. Some of those include the 2019+ Edge ST, and the 2.7L F-150's.

You can run an E85 Tune on the Stock Pump at least from ZFG. It is not a full bore E85 tune. It is faster than a 93 tune(a few 100ths in 0-60, and a 10th in the 1/4), but much slower than an E50 tune. It does come with the advantage of no mixing though. To run Full bore E85 you need an aftermarket pump like the XDI's, but once installed you cannot run the Factory tune.

Is Adam's E85 tune (with fuel pump, intercooler, and downpipes) theoretically more powerful than his E50 tune with similar mods--or would you estimate them to be pretty comparable? I hate mixing fuel and have an E85 station close to me... For some reason I never considered this possibility with everyone just doing E50... In my head I kind of lumped higher ethanol tunes with more expensive overhauls like a Stage 5 setup.

 

[LokiWolf]

Is Adam's E85 tune (with fuel pump, intercooler, and downpipes) theoretically more powerful than his E50 tune with similar mods--or would you estimate them to be pretty comparable? I hate mixing fuel and have an E85 station close to me... For some reason I never considered this possibility with everyone just doing E50... In my head I kind of lumped higher ethanol tunes with more expensive overhauls like a Stage 5 setup.

Yes, a Full E85 tune is more power than E50 with supporting mods like the Pump. @ZFGracing could tell you his estimate on how much though.

 

[IM A NYR 3]

What happens if I get the suggested mods and tune but fill up with E0 87 octane because E85 is not available like on a road trip or something? Will that damage the fuel pump or other?

 

[LokiWolf]

What happens if I get the suggested mods and tune but fill up with E0 87 octane because E85 is not available like on a road trip or something? Will that damage the fuel pump or other?

You would need to load an 87 tune. Can't run an E85 tune with regular gas in the tank...

 

[karson]

This helps explain a little.

 

[F=MA]

I have the ZFG E50 tune. E85 costs $1.50 per gallon and 93 octane E30 costs $2.00 per gallon. I mix 50/50 at the same pump. $1.75 per gallon average compared to $2.60 per gallon for 91 octane at generic gas stations. The savings in fuel alone will pay for the tune in a couple of years. My vehicle is a work vehicle and I do not take it on any long trips where my access to E85 and E30 would require I retune. I mostly keep it off the long trips because they are the reason I usually get rock chips on the front end paint and windshield especially on the two lane roads. I may have to check into the hi volume fuel pump to switch to straight E85 but I still do not even have downpipes or larger exhaust yet. Running Borla S-Type.

 

[MikeWolfe]

I've heard about the E85 tuning. I know the tune includes the High Flow fuel pump.

Outside of needing a fuel pump upgrade, Why is the Explorer St not advised to run E85? The manual doesn't allow for the use of E85, and I don't want to void my warranty. Is it the degradation of hoses, parts, etc that is ok with E15 but not E85? That usually the reason they don't want you to go higher than E10.

If possible, is there someone from Ford that can chime in as well??

Hi All
75 year old Retired fuel systems engineer here
Our company supplies Ford, GM, Chrysler & many of the imports as well
Any vehicle built since OBD requirements (SAE J1850) were instituted has to be capable of using 10% or more ethanol.
So the fuel systems are designed to be Ethanol compatible regardless of the % of ethanol in the fuel
However many fuel systems do not have adequate fuel pump & injector flow rates to accommodate E85
Mixes up to about 30% ethanol are usually acceptable for port injected engines
Mixes up to about 50% ethanol are usually acceptable for GDI engines

 

[MikeWolfe]

You would need to load an 87 tune. Can't run an E85 tune with regular gas in the tank...

I would never 87 octane "CRAP" gasoline in anything
Use minimum of 91 octane

 

[LokiWolf]

I would never 87 octane "CRAP" gasoline in anything
Use minimum of 91 octane

Yes, I was directly responding to his question.


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[LokiWolf]

Hi All
75 year old Retired fuel systems engineer here
Our company supplies Ford, GM, Chrysler & many of the imports as well
Any vehicle built since OBD requirements (SAE J1850) were instituted has to be capable of using 10% or more ethanol.
So the fuel systems are designed to be Ethanol compatible regardless of the % of ethanol in the fuel
However many fuel systems do not have adequate fuel pump & injector flow rates to accommodate E85
Mixes up to about 30% ethanol are usually acceptable for port injected engines
Mixes up to about 50% ethanol are usually acceptable for GDI engines

Yes, the direct limits for the ST are already known, and were posted above.


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[dolsen]

Yes, the direct limits for the ST are already known, and were posted above.


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I can appreciate that someone of his pedigree chimed in with actual design/development experience. Please don't discourage the experts from giving their input, even if it is redundant information. Driving away the members with actual, applied knowledge and experience will leave us with a forum full of bullshitters and guessers.

 

[ST-2021]

how can i contact this adam at zfg im big on getting my st torun straight e83 straight pipe most power for me is best

 

[LokiWolf]

how can i contact this adam at zfg im big on getting my st torun straight e83 straight pipe most power for me is best

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/custom-tune-request

ZFG is not accepting new customers at this time. He will be soon though. Above is to get on the waiting list.

Also, HE WILL NOT tune for Catless pipes. Anybody who is tuning or installing catless pipes is part of the problem, not the solution. There is VERY little to be gained on this platform from catless, and using tuning to remove them is also illegal, not just for the owner, but the tuner also.

SPD, and FenFab are your 2 options for DownPipes currently.

 

[ST-2021]

Thanks buddie

 

[Lightning Struck]

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/custom-tune-request

ZFG is not accepting new customers at this time. He will be soon though. Above is to get on the waiting list.

Do you also have the winning lottery ticket numbers since you seem to know everything that's going to happen in the future?

 

[UNBROKEN]

Do you also have the winning lottery ticket numbers since you seem to know everything that's going to happen in the future?

He’s right though.