Fuel octane?

[TMac]

So whose opinion do you think I should be writing about? Yes, of course its mine. aren't you stating your opinion?

Still no useful contribution.

You are assuming that the average buyer should fully understand the ramifications of the marketing claptrap that Ford prints? Gee, I wonder why we have consumer protection laws and associations? Obviously in your world they are not needed because its all the buyer's fault?

I'm still curious to know if the standard that we are discussing is with "pure" 92 octane gasoline or a 92 octane blend including ethanol? Ethanol has significantly lower BTUs than gasoline, I wonder how that effects the results? Maybe our expert with the chemistry degree can explain?

Let's see if I can restate XSbank's post for grown-ups:

Only MY opinion counts. I only ask for opinions that agree with my own.
Your facts are worthless since they don't agree with my opinions.
Even though Ford (and all other manufacturers) print technical info, since I'm not capable of understanding it, they are frauds.
Consumer protection laws are here to protect me from my own stupidity.
I cannot even begin to understand what "octane" is, even when it's explained to me because....only my opinion counts.
Someone with a chemical degree which I do not possess doesn't agree with me, so maybe he can continue to explain until it meets with my approval.

Does this remind any of y'all of your middle school experience?

 

[LokiWolf]

Hi, how y'all doin? New guy here. Guess I walked into a sh*t storm, huh?

Yeah, No issues. Welcome!

 

[LokiWolf]

there is some confusion about fuel.

Only you, because reading comprehension is hard.

 

[Big Turk]

My question to the group:

Why does everyone keep engaging with individuals that do not want your advice? They say they want your advice/opinion, but they don't mean it. So just stop arguing with them. Just ignore them. Go on about your business and enjoy your real interests. Cheers.

 

[LokiWolf]

1. You are right, I think the ST is a pos, but ultimately, I paid for it and its mine. As per affording premium fuel, I paid cash for the car and yes, I do regret it. Ad hominem attacks on me are peurile and the sign of a tiny mind. Blame the buyer? How many of these have been bought back by Ford?
2. Ford promises performance based on a standard that is not readily available to the consumer, not only the actual information of the standard but also the fuel its based on is elusive. If it is 92 octane, that is not available in large parts of the US and also not in Canada. My town its 91 maximum. You might as well make the standard based on magic beans.
3. I am not obsessed, just curious.
4. Hahahahaha! I have a Business degree.
5. If that engine is supposed to run on 92 octane but you run it on a lower grade, are you relying on a knock sensor to keep it healthy? That's a pretty tenuous grip on reliability.
6. Car companies never lie or mislead...Volkswagen was a paragon of virtue, until it wasn't.

Let's address your points.
1) Trade it in or get a VRoom or Carvana offer. Several have and made money!
2) The standard is a consistent measuring stick. I would bet $100 that on 91(E10) you are still over 400 at the crank based on normal losses.
3) Clearly...no agenda.
4) Then listen to those of us with MORE knowledge than you on the subject.
5) That is how ALL modern motors work. That is what allows them to make more or less power based on crap or low Octane. This is not new.
6) I owned a 2013 TDI Passat, it was an amazing vehicle. VW got shafted. They were made an example of. Just having Diesels on the road vs gas was better for the environment. You realize the emissions on the violating TDI's was less than on a gas 4 cylinder of the same displacement from 10 years before that right?

 

[TMac]

Big Turk- Because it IS a group forum. Why should one deluded and angry person get to disrupt every thread they enter without consequence?

 

[LokiWolf]

My question to the group:

Why does everyone keep engaging with individuals that do not want your advice? They say they want your advice/opinion, but they don't mean it. So just stop arguing with them. Just ignore them. Go on about your business and enjoy your real interests. Cheers.

Good point. Sorry, sometimes Trolls can be fun to play with.

 

[Xsbank]

Lots of gum-flapping here but no one has an answer to how many have 92 octane available?

 

[UNBROKEN]

Lots of gum-flapping here but no one has an answer to how many have 92 octane available?

That’s just an industry testing standard for the octane rating. It’s not even real gas used.
The real question is...how much power do you think you’re “losing” by running 91 octane gasoline?

 

[GearHead_1]

Troll and a laptop.

 

[Dad_Mobile]

So let me get this straight, the more octane the more power? The less octane and power degrades if tuned to do so?

 

[Xsbank]

"...not even real gas used." Doesn't that make the ratings even more misleading? Anyway, that's what I've been trying to find out, what kind of fuel do they use for testing?

As far as power loss goes, that's immaterial.

My point, well one of them, is why did Ford choose a standard that cannot be by a large percentage of it's clients? Presumably it matters to their target market or why bother with all the blather about HP? Surely I can't be so obtuse that I'm the only one on here that missed the part about 400 HP (but only on fuel that you can't get!)?

My other car was from the US market and it has a sticker on the cap that says 93 octane min. When I drove it back from Montreal via Phoenix I could not find 93 very often. Certainly not California. The highest I found otherwise was 91. I never saw 92 (unless I didn't fuel up in a state that had it).

 

[EngineIceDave]

 

[EngineIceDave]

Standards are SAE and ASTM's industry standards, don't think Ford made them up on the spot

 

[LokiWolf]

Lots of gum-flapping here but no one has an answer to how many have 92 octane available?

IT IS AN AVERAGE! Man you are dense.

Here are a few facts for you, since they seem to be hard:

93Stations from Find93.com


List of States and Minimum Octane per grade.

You can do the Math yourself...but the average across this whole table is 92.1....I rest my case.

Also, there are 4 States where the standard for Premium is ACTUALLY 92....so move there.

 

[LokiWolf]

So let me get this straight, the more octane the more power? The less octane and power degrades if tuned to do so?

Mostly. The car will only adjust up but so far on Stock tuning.

 

[Xsbank]

Generally that's true as long as the engine is tuned for it. Or at least that's my understanding. My take on this engine is that it is tested with some sort of 92 fuel which it needs to make its rated horsepower, yet it is allowed to use lower octane but, expect less power due to the knock sensor retarding the timing to prevent detonation.

 

[TMac]

Generally that's true as long as the engine is tuned for it. Or at least that's my understanding. My take on this engine is that it is tested with some sort of 92 fuel which it needs to make its rated horsepower, yet it is allowed to use lower octane but, expect less power due to the knock sensor retarding the timing to prevent detonation.

You've got it! Now drop it!

 

[Xsbank]

Thanks for that table. How can you use an average when a third of the states (16) have 91 maximum? If I live in one of those 16, your "average" is meaningless.

 

[MikeWolfe]

76 year old retired automotive engineer here
I always recalibrate my ECBOOST vehicles
Have owned 7 of them & love the performance potential that Ford left on the table
Currently have a 2018 EXPY & our 2020 Explorer ST
With the E51 available near me & the E50 calibration from 5 star our ST is a terror
About 103 actual octane
E85 is 108 octane
Ethanol is a great fuel with great latent heat of evaporation qualities (really cools the combustion chambers when injected)
91 octane calibration is still so much better than Ford's stock calibration
Their transmission calibrations are also far superior to the stock Ford calibrations
I will not use anything lower than 91 octane
87 octane fuel is "CRAP" fuel
You lose about 20% HP & Torque when using 87 octane in the ST's
I do not even use it in my lawnmower