Honest opinion of 2025 ST. Buying a 24.

[Coffeehouse]

I picked up at 25 last week after owning a 20 and 21. It took me a few days but I've noticed the seating difference too. I cannot configure the seat and steering wheel the same way I could in the prior models. My legs aren't extended as far as I'd like them to be, and I think it may be due to the steering wheel not extending as far as it did in the past models.

Compared to the prior versions you owned, are you sitting higher (despite the differences in column/wheel config)? It's why I mentioned that difference in relation to my chest alignment with the dash vs. the wheel. It was significant enough for me, sitting higher, that I didn't enjoy the position. My seat is always in the lowest position with the wheel down low - just not enough to fully hide the numbers at the top of the speedometer.

 

[steveshadow]

So...Just got back from test driving a 2025 ST. Spoiler alert....it was just meh!

Let me explain in context.

Im leasing a 2021 ST. Love it. It's loaded and have had only one real issue in 44K miles. I had the timing cams done at 40K. Otherwise it's been great.

Along comes the refreshed 2025 at the same time my 21 lease term ends so I naturally get to the dealer and put in my order for the 25 on March 3. The 25 goes into production on 6/3 where it sit today with no one able to tell me what the deal is and when it will be delivered. So, I've been passing up a 24 because of the missing masage seats (they truly are wonderful), but now some interesting incentives are making me possibly look at this option again. So my local dealer starts getting in the 25s and I went to see what all the hype was to see if I really wanted to wait and extend my lease for the fourth month or look back at a 24.

My impressions:

The wheels actually look REAL nice in person. My concern for these no more.

The rear looks more modern.

The front is pretty nice and much better in person also. The red one looks pretty phenomenal from the front in the sun. Not as nice as my Hot Pepper Red Bronco though, sorry!

The interior seats are quite different. Felt deeper and softer than my 21. The seating position I couldn't seem to get right though. Not sure why.

The interior layout I thought was going to impress me more. Was excited for the new tray and charging location. It was nice but not crazy nice.

The screen is nice and responsive and the horizontal layout is surely better. The dash screen is nice with the map view. Unfortunately, I just wasn't THAT impressed. It's not like a new Mercedes dash. It's better, but is it really all THAT? Not sure.

The first driving impression was that it sounded a lot different in the interior. Not sure why, but it was different.

Close your eyes though (not for too long though) and it juts feels the same as my 21. It's mechanically the same and feels it.

The transmission definitely shifts different but seems almost too smooth. It's seems to have lost a little rawness of the 21.

So parked car and needed one last comparison. Is the new 25 worth the money?

Here is the breakdown.

2025
No incentives unless you have a private offer.
36 month lease 15k miles with 1750 down = 1048/mth

2024
4750 incentives lease to lease
36 mth lease 15k miles 0 down = 680/mth

2021 buyout
Purchase for 28500 + taxes/fees etc at 6% = 597/mth for 60 mths

So the question then becomes is the 25 refresh worth the ~400/mth difference.


The answer for me was NO. I'll be picking up the 24 next week, letting my 25 go to the highest bidder at the dealer. Getting some equity out of the lease return (about $2200) further reducing the lease down to 640/mth. My salesman told me that this is the reason they have almost 10 25s on their lot right now. The sticker shock is forcing everyone to reconsider and go back to the 24 which look to be getting gobbled up around here pretty quickly.

Maybe this helps others. Maybe not. Just my experience and thoughts.

I'm blessed to currently have a 2022 St and my newly purchased 2025 St in my driveway temporarily. I didn't get a chance to do a lot of back and forth testing before I picked up the 2025. I'm going to concern my comments mostly with the engine and throttle and transmission. I have some concerns I've read in a few places that the transmission was detuned to make it smoother which took away some of the righteousness of the 21 through 24 model I can attest to this you got to use an awful lot of throttle to get it to downshift especially at slow speeds which lowers the overall aggressiveness of the entire package. now I do have the upgraded intercooler and I think that may have some bearing but I wouldn't expect it to have bearing at such low initial rpms. it also might be that the turbochargers are not tuned to give you quite as much response and either case I almost considered taking the 2025 back and just keeping my 2022. I haven't seen any place else that mentions this even some of the car review videos which may compel me to sigh make my own video but I'm just wonder if anyone else is having this experience.?

 

[ARC]

Thanks guys those are both really fair and honest reviews. I agree with a lot that was said. Can you guys comment on QC?....particularly fit and finish?

YES, BECAUSE TO ME THE INTERIOR QUALITY IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE.

 

[STeiner]

Bumping a zombie thread. But as a former 23 ST owner(purchased new) and now a 25 ST owner(purchased new), I can give some opinion on this matter. The biggest notable improvements with the 25 are all in the interior. The interior sounds and feels completely different. The new design is more spacious. The leather/suede* seats are more comfortable. The wireless phone charger works with large phones now because it sits flat on a wide shelf. The layout of the integrated sound bar style speakers in the dash sound more immersive. I personally am experiencing A LOT less engine/wastegate knocking noise from inside the cabin. Perhaps Ford listened and reduced the FENG a little bit. Or maybe the new interior design insulates better, but my 25 is much quieter inside in normal driving mode. Ford literally said that they redesigned the interior to simulate the comfort of a living room.

From a technology standpoint, the 20-24's don't even compare. For starters, the infotainment system is vastly improved. The 13.2" horizontal layout on the 25 provides a better full screen appearance. Apple Carplay/AndroidAuto) is wireless now and connects the moment you press the Start button. The responsiveness of the system is extremely fast, there is enough CPU power to play video games(one is included). You can watch full screen Youtube, when parked with the included app or add other video apps. BlueCruise was added, and although I will rarely use it, it's pretty neat to sit back and let the vehicle drive itself on the highway. The dash now has a tachometer in normal drive mode without a bright blue background, and Ford also added some temp gauges to the menu which you can toggle on if you want to monitor them.

There are many improvements which elude me right now, but to be fair, I'll mention some things I miss from my 23. The biggest issue I have is no physical HVAC controls. It took some time to get used to using the touch screen to control the A/C. The different drive modes have different animations, but they all share the same screen layout on the dash. I miss the variety of screens. My 25 is a Job 2 build, so I don't have the retractable sunshades in the rear passenger doors.

As far as QC goes, it feels similar, it's a Ford. My 25 is definitely quieter inside, but as time goes by, I fully expect it to develop the usual rattles and creaking plastic noises. But maybe I'll get lucky.


*The comfort of the seats is obviously subjective, and I know they aren't real leather/suede.

 

[Cdubya]

@STeiner: nice review. Interior is what needed improving the most. Glad it seems they succeeded. Hopefully it stays quiet. After almost 6 years on my 2020, there are bumps, rattles, and vibrations coming from all over it seems. Still a great car though and with the new Fullscreen mod for Sync3, I can easily live with it a few more years.

 

[Chairborne Ranger]

Bumping a zombie thread. But as a former 23 ST owner(purchased new) and now a 25 ST owner(purchased new), I can give some opinion on this matter. The biggest notable improvements with the 25 are all in the interior. The interior sounds and feels completely different. The new design is more spacious. The leather/suede* seats are more comfortable. The wireless phone charger works with large phones now because it sits flat on a wide shelf. The layout of the integrated sound bar style speakers in the dash sound more immersive. I personally am experiencing A LOT less engine/wastegate knocking noise from inside the cabin. Perhaps Ford listened and reduced the FENG a little bit. Or maybe the new interior design insulates better, but my 25 is much quieter inside in normal driving mode. Ford literally said that they redesigned the interior to simulate the comfort of a living room.

From a technology standpoint, the 20-24's don't even compare. For starters, the infotainment system is vastly improved. The 13.2" horizontal layout on the 25 provides a better full screen appearance. Apple Carplay/AndroidAuto) is wireless now and connects the moment you press the Start button. The responsiveness of the system is extremely fast, there is enough CPU power to play video games(one is included). You can watch full screen Youtube, when parked with the included app or add other video apps. BlueCruise was added, and although I will rarely use it, it's pretty neat to sit back and let the vehicle drive itself on the highway. The dash now has a tachometer in normal drive mode without a bright blue background, and Ford also added some temp gauges to the menu which you can toggle on if you want to monitor them.

There are many improvements which elude me right now, but to be fair, I'll mention some things I miss from my 23. The biggest issue I have is no physical HVAC controls. It took some time to get used to using the touch screen to control the A/C. The different drive modes have different animations, but they all share the same screen layout on the dash. I miss the variety of screens. My 25 is a Job 2 build, so I don't have the retractable sunshades in the rear passenger doors.

As far as QC goes, it feels similar, it's a Ford. My 25 is definitely quieter inside, but as time goes by, I fully expect it to develop the usual rattles and creaking plastic noises. But maybe I'll get lucky.


*The comfort of the seats is obviously subjective, and I know they aren't real leather/suede.

I'm guessing your steering column adjustment is manual also and not power. My early build ST has the rear sunshades and powered steering wheel column.

 

[STeiner]

That's correct, I have a manual steering column.

 

[enphor]

That's correct, I have a manual steering column.

It's criminal that they removed the power steering column. Having multiple driver presets now still means different people would want to adjust the wheel to them or just say F it and roll with just one setting for everyone. Fortunately only I drive my ST , but still a 50K+ vehicle should have a power steering column adjustment.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

It's criminal that they removed the power steering column. Having multiple driver presets now still means different people would want to adjust the wheel to them or just say F it and roll with just one setting for everyone. Fortunately only I drive my ST , but still a 50K+ vehicle should have a power steering column adjustment.

Agree. Ford is stepping over buyer satisfation to pick up pennies.

 

[Cruising68]

Agree. Ford is stepping over buyer satisfation to pick up pennies.

Bean counters. And stupid bean counters at that imo.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[STeiner]

Unpopular opinion. I don't mind a manual steering column. Why? Because it will always work, it's one less motor to go bad. Also, I had my 23 ST for a little over a year and I think I adjusted the steering wheel twice. It's not a huge inconvenience for a solo driver. Losing the sun shades was a much bigger deal, because I use them everyday.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

Unpopular opinion. I don't mind a manual steering column. Why? Because it will always work, it's one less motor to go bad. Also, I had my 23 ST for a little over a year and I think I adjusted the steering wheel twice. It's not a huge inconvenience for a solo driver. Losing the sun shades was a much bigger deal, because I use them everyday.

True. I don’t mind Ford removing the steering column so much, it’s just the overall picture of Ford continuing to decontent the vehicles.

 

[SETXExpSTGuy]

Unpopular opinion. I don't mind a manual steering column. Why? Because it will always work, it's one less motor to go bad. Also, I had my 23 ST for a little over a year and I think I adjusted the steering wheel twice. It's not a huge inconvenience for a solo driver. Losing the sun shades was a much bigger deal, because I use them everyday.

And I'm completely on the other side as I use my powered steering column virtually every time I'm in the vehicle, including...

1. Having the driver's seat retract and the steering column raise automatically during every power-off exit, making egress easier and more convenient, even for this pretty fit and trim guy (6'/185 lbs.). Check!

2. Entering vehicle with the driver's seat retracted and the steering column raised from the previous drive, making ingress easier and more convenient. Check!

3. Having both seat and steering column automatically reposition themselves to my preferred driving settings at each start-up. Check!

4. When pulling up to the insufferable USPS NDCBU mailbox that requires me to exit the vehicle to obtain my mail, being able to press the "3" button (the other driver in the household uses the "2" button) in order to move the seat back and have the steering column raise without having to shut off the vehicle. Check!

The above notwithstanding, in my multiple decades of vehicle ownership, I have never had a steering column motor fail in any vehicle that had the same---ever. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[UGADawg96]

I'm glad we got a job 1. The explorer is shared between my 5'4" wife and me at 6'1". The memory seats and steering wheel are amazing. The only thing to adjust is the seat belt and the mirror. In our F150, no memory anything and all manual adjustments, it sucks big time. For our next non-truck, we want memory on the passenger side too.

 

[Flyman]

Ford and their removal of options through a model year is common and sometimes frustrating.
Ive had a 13 SHO and a 19 SHO. Among the items removed over the years are multi-contoured searts, removal of a blinker stalk, parking assist, rear power shade, from 2 transmission mounts to 1, the above mentioned steering wheel downgrade, and some others I am forgetting at the moment.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

I'm glad we got a job 1. The explorer is shared between my 5'4" wife and me at 6'1". The memory seats and steering wheel are amazing. The only thing to adjust is the seat belt and the mirror. In our F150, no memory anything and all manual adjustments, it sucks big time. For our next non-truck, we want memory on the passenger side too.

You can assign the different memory positions for you and your wife to a specific key fob. Then when you approach the vehicle, the seats, mirrors, and steering column will go to your memory setting the second you touch the door handle. Conversely, it will also do the same for your wife, but you have to not mix up the fobs. Let your wife keep one in her purse, and you keep the other. To set it up, when you press the memory button to store your settings you wait a few seconds until you hear a beep, keep holding to memory button a few more seconds until you hear a second beep then press the unlock button on the fob and now that memory position is assigned to that fob. Do the same for the other fob.

 

[23 Explorer ST]

And I'm completely on the other side as I use my powered steering column virtually every time I'm in the vehicle, including...

1. Having the driver's seat retract and the steering column raise automatically during every power-off exit, making egress easier and more convenient, even for this pretty fit and trim guy (6'/185 lbs.). Check!

2. Entering vehicle with the driver's seat retracted and the steering column raised from the previous drive, making ingress easier and more convenient. Check!

3. Having both seat and steering column automatically reposition themselves to my preferred driving settings at each start-up. Check!

4. When pulling up to the insufferable USPS NDCBU mailbox that requires me to exit the vehicle to obtain my mail, being able to press the "3" button (the other driver in the household uses the "2" button) in order to move the seat back and have the steering column raise without having to shut off the vehicle. Check!

The above notwithstanding, in my multiple decades of vehicle ownership, I have never had a steering column motor fail in any vehicle that had the same---ever. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky.

THIS^^^^^ Agree 100%!!!


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[enphor]

Unpopular opinion. I don't mind a manual steering column. Why? Because it will always work, it's one less motor to go bad. Also, I had my 23 ST for a little over a year and I think I adjusted the steering wheel twice. It's not a huge inconvenience for a solo driver. Losing the sun shades was a much bigger deal, because I use them everyday.

As if one more motorized item will make a difference. You do realize you purchased a driving set of computers, sensors, along with dozens small motorized items/valves/solenoids/electric motors all over it to make it work right? The steering column motor and controls are the least of my worry!

 

[UGADawg96]

You can assign the different memory positions for you and your wife to a specific key fob. Then when you approach the vehicle, the seats, mirrors, and steering column will go to your memory setting the second you touch the door handle. Conversely, it will also do the same for your wife, but you have to not mix up the fobs. Let your wife keep one in her purse, and you keep the other. To set it up, when you press the memory button to store your settings you wait a few seconds until you hear a beep, keep holding to memory button a few more seconds until you hear a second beep then press the unlock button on the fob and now that memory position is assigned to that fob. Do the same for the other fob.

We often switch while driving on road trips or after one drives to dinner or a show and switch for coming back. My wife also switches up her purses regularly based on occasion. So its easy to take just one fob off the key rack when needed and just use the memory 1 or 2 button on the door. We discussed assigning fobs when we first got the car six months ago, but determined we didn't see any value in it for our use cases and haven't thought about trying it either.

 

[STeiner]

One feature that Ford removed on the 2025 that is welcomed, is the automatic parking brake. Gone is the need to reach down and de-activate the parking brake or blip the throttle to dis-engage. On the 25, the parking brake stays off until you flip the switch. Either that or it automatically disengages when you enter Drive or Reverse.
After driving my 23 for a year, I still find myself reaching down with muscle memory trying to turn that b@stard off, even when it's not on.
And I don't think Forscan could even kill the dreaded automatic parking brake.