New hpfp and injector option!

[ZFGracing]

NEW PRODUCT ALERT!!!!

High level sumary for what you guys need to know.

If you want to run e85 and you have stock turbos and are mostly stock you will want to run just the pump, this will get you near 520 whp.

If you have a lot of mods and want to run e85 you need the injectors as well. With turbo upgrades we can go to about 600 awhp before running out of injector.

If you have big turbos and all the mods we will need to dial back to e60 for max effort then we are taking 650+ that is what @kevin and @Theo are doing.


Nostrum High Performance Performance 2020+ Explorer and Aviator 3.0L Stage 1 Bundle

WHP Potential on E85: 600 WHP (Dyno Proven, injector limited)
WHP Potential on E60: 650 WHP (Dyno Proven)
WHP Potential on Gasoline: 830 WHP (theoretical based on fuel flow)

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/product-page/2020-explorer-and-aviator-3-0l-stage-1-bundle

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[Nbk4t5e]

NEW PRODUCT ALERT!!!!

High level sumary for what you guys need to know.

If you want to run e85 and you have stock turbos and are mostly stock you will want to run just the pump, this will get you near 520 whp.

If you have a lot of mods and want to run e85 you need the injectors as well. With turbo upgrades we can go to about 600 awhp before running out of injector.

If you have big turbos and all the mods we will need to dial back to e60 for max effort then we are taking 650+ that is what @kevin and @Theo are doing.


Nostrum High Performance Performance 2020+ Explorer and Aviator 3.0L Stage 1 Bundle

WHP Potential on E85: 600 WHP (Dyno Proven, injector limited)
WHP Potential on E60: 650 WHP (Dyno Proven)
WHP Potential on Gasoline: 830 WHP (theoretical based on fuel flow)

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/product-page/2020-explorer-and-aviator-3-0l-stage-1-bundle

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Speechless here!


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[sambopr]

Wow!!

 

[F=MA]

Do you consider CR Stage 5 Turbos as big turbos? What kind of gasoline are you talking ? 91 octane or 104 racing gas? These are the things I need to know ! (Lord Marshall-Riddick)

 

[ZFGracing]

Yes

The gas hp number is theoretical. "If the car was capable of making 830 hp this on gas this could supply it". So to answer you question that would a race gas bigger turbo than anything out there, built motor etc etc. 830 hp worth of fuel.

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[zdubyadubya]

Hey @ZFGracing -- whats the theoretical limit for the stock fuel system and how would you get there on 93? finding corn around me is next to impossible. If I've done everything but turbos, are those the next in line limiting factor or should the fuel system be addressed first and then bigger turbos? if I do a Stage 5 kit similar to @F=MA (bigger wheels in a stock FoMoCo housing) can the stock fuel system take advantage of those when running 93?

 

[Ford Guy]

Wow. 800WHP.

 

[TMac]

Hey @ZFGracing -- whats the theoretical limit for the stock fuel system and how would you get there on 93? finding corn around me is next to impossible. If I've done everything but turbos, are those the next in line limiting factor or should the fuel system be addressed first and then bigger turbos? if I do a Stage 5 kit similar to @F=MA (bigger wheels in a stock FoMoCo housing) can the stock fuel system take advantage of those when running 93?

800 hp at the wheels would be approximately 870 crank hp. 870 crank hp would take an estimated (optimistic) 85-90 lbs/min air mass. Figuring a 12:1 air to fuel ratio means you'd require 7-8 lbs/min of fuel (and 93 is about 6 lbs/gallon). If the pump/injector combo can produce that output you could theoretically get to 800 whp.

However...I can't see the stock turbo housing frames even with upgraded compressor/turbines getting to that number. Boost-wise, it would require 27-30psi (with a pretty good sized turbine wheel) which would also be problematic for 93 octane.

 

[zdubyadubya]

800 hp at the wheels would be approximately 870 crank hp. 870 crank hp would take an estimated (optimistic) 85-90 lbs/min air mass. Figuring a 12:1 air to fuel ratio means you'd require 7-8 lbs/min of fuel (and 93 is about 6 lbs/gallon). If the pump/injector combo can produce that output you could theoretically get to 800 whp.

However...I can't see the stock turbo housing frames even with upgraded compressor/turbines getting to that number. Boost-wise, it would require 27-30psi (with a pretty good sized turbine wheel) which would also be problematic for 93 octane.

hence my question. on 93, is it the fuel system or the turbos that are creating the performance plateau (or the clutches in the trans or engine oil starvation)? when someone has done everything else and wants to delve into turbo upgrades, can the stock fuel system adequately supply the CR Stage 5 setup to make the upgrade cost worthwhile or would one be opening another $10,000 can of worms to go to the next level.

 

[ZFGracing]

Guys fuel system limits to not equal performance limits. No you are not going to make 830whp on pump gas period on this platform. That's not how fuel system ratings work. 830whp ratings is saying if you have a 830hp engine this will have enough fuel system to supply it.

What you guys to look at is gains going from 93 to full e85. You look at a completely stock truck and we will see gains of about 75hp on tuned on 93 octane. On e85 the gains are 150hp plus.

You will not make more hp on 93 then you will on e85 or e60.


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[rjacobs]

So who is building upgraded trans and PTU's to deal with all this HP?

 

[ZFGracing]

There is no ptu, this is a 10r60 with a transfer case. Similar to an f150.

Level 10 is building them. There is a dozen or so in the wild.

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[rjacobs]

I was under the impression it had a computer controlled clutch type PTU in it.

So whats the limit on the stock transfer case?

 

[TMac]

hence my question. on 93, is it the fuel system or the turbos that are creating the performance plateau (or the clutches in the trans or engine oil starvation)? when someone has done everything else and wants to delve into turbo upgrades, can the stock fuel system adequately supply the CR Stage 5 setup to make the upgrade cost worthwhile or would one be opening another $10,000 can of worms to go to the next level.

The honest truth is that it is extremely difficult to produce more than 200 hp/liter on 93 octane. So for the ST, that would be approx 600 crank hp. I'm not familiar with the limits of the stock fuel system, but you'd need north of 5 lbs/min with the added caveat of flow rates of the injectors so as to keep it within the intake/compression event. The stock fuel system might handle this, but I'd be surprised if even upgraded turbos could achieve the 60 lbs/min or so of airflow required given the size of the stock housings. (Anyone with more info, please feel free to correct me). Ethanol is a different story, as you have a different air/fuel ratio which means you need a lot more fuel and less air to hit the same hp target. Any of the upgraded fuel systems are designed primarily for ethanol blends.

 

[Blown F-150]

Looks like a awesome Kit and Glad to see some options coming out. I come from the F150 world, so I gotta ask...is our in-tank pump pretty stout flow wise?

 

[zdubyadubya]

The honest truth is that it is extremely difficult to produce more than 200 hp/liter on 93 octane. So for the ST, that would be approx 600 crank hp. I'm not familiar with the limits of the stock fuel system, but you'd need north of 5 lbs/min with the added caveat of flow rates of the injectors so as to keep it within the intake/compression event. The stock fuel system might handle this, but I'd be surprised if even upgraded turbos could achieve the 60 lbs/min or so of airflow required given the size of the stock housings. (Anyone with more info, please feel free to correct me). Ethanol is a different story, as you have a different air/fuel ratio which means you need a lot more fuel and less air to hit the same hp target. Any of the upgraded fuel systems are designed primarily for ethanol blends.

That's interesting. The claims of 654hp out of the new Ferrari 3.0L V6 and 700hp out of the new Aston 3.0L V6 seem not real-life numbers then? Or do you think those mnfgs are doing some other trickery to get those figures?

 

[ZFGracing]

The honest truth is that it is extremely difficult to produce more than 200 hp/liter on 93 octane. So for the ST, that would be approx 600 crank hp. I'm not familiar with the limits of the stock fuel system, but you'd need north of 5 lbs/min with the added caveat of flow rates of the injectors so as to keep it within the intake/compression event. The stock fuel system might handle this, but I'd be surprised if even upgraded turbos could achieve the 60 lbs/min or so of airflow required given the size of the stock housings. (Anyone with more info, please feel free to correct me). Ethanol is a different story, as you have a different air/fuel ratio which means you need a lot more fuel and less air to hit the same hp target. Any of the upgraded fuel systems are designed primarily for ethanol blends.

Again, it has nothing to do with the motor and everything to do with how much fuel the pump and injectors can support "gasoline" is referenced here the basically amounts to any non-ethanol fuel including race gas.

This is how fuel systems are rated... there is a theoretical number for pump gas and a theoretical number for E85 it's based on fuel flow and Brake specific fuel consumption (bsfc). This is no different than any other fuel system sizing tools.

The only difference here is we actually did Max out the fuel system for the ethanol numbers.

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[ZFGracing]

That's interesting. The claims of 654hp out of the new Ferrari 3.0L V6 and 700hp out of the new Aston 3.0L V6 seem not real-life numbers then? Or do you think those mnfgs are doing some other trickery to get those figures?

Those are crank numbers remember we are talking awhp here so 650 at the wheels is more like 750 at crank.

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[ZFGracing]

Looks like a awesome Kit and Glad to see some options coming out. I come from the F150 world, so I gotta ask...is our in-tank pump pretty stout flow wise?

Yes it must be the same bosch core as the raptor. Have not see it dip at all yet.

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[ZFGracing]

I was under the impression it had a computer controlled clutch type PTU in it.

So whats the limit on the stock transfer case?

PT you that you are referring to does not have any clutches in it even in the transverse platforms. A ptu is nothing more than a gear box. The all-wheel-drive on those platforms is controlled by the RDU or rear drive unit. That also doesn't have any clutches in it it uses a viscous coupler except in the case of the Ford Focus RS and a handful of other things.

So far no one has broken the transfer case in these.

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