OK, Went with ZFG Adam Tune…

[LokiWolf]

So your hundred examples are with one tuner? Or does Adams tunes also fall into this category of buy, copy, tweak? Only ask because you directly accused someone of doing that with Adams' tune. I don't really understand how it works but I can't imagine a profitable enterprise if all you had to do was copy someone's work and resell it. Can you elaborate on the 100 times you've seen this happening?

If you have been around it is well known this has been done across multiple platforms, not just the ST. There have been cases of other tuners masquerading as a customer to get their competitors tune to see what they were doing differently. The MPVI series, whether the original, the MPVI2, or the new and current MPVI2+, are powerful tools. That is why many pros prefer them, and the software that accompanies them. There are other products out there that can do similar.

Yes, the files can be locked, and it does make it harder to look at the tables, but not impossible if you know what you are doing. It is not foolproof.

The RTD, while similar to the MPVI2, is lacking in these abilities and is designed for the average consumer.

I hope that clarifies a bit!


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[UNBROKEN]

So your hundred examples are with one tuner? Or does Adams tunes also fall into this category of buy, copy, tweak? Only ask because you directly accused someone of doing that with Adams' tune. I don't really understand how it works but I can't imagine a profitable enterprise if all you had to do was copy someone's work and resell it. Can you elaborate on the 100 times you've seen this happening?

Sounds like you’re making up your own numbers and fishing for bullshit. My example was based on my personal experience as the reason PBD gave me that they wouldn’t sell me only a tune because I have the MPVI2. I’ve been around a long time…I’ve seen it happen countless times across many tuning devices and platforms. I’ve even been approached personally for copies of HP tunes so people could “have a look”. I think the OP knows enough to be able to get into the whole thing, yes. I also think he will do just that as it is absolutely possible no matter what smoke screen he throws up.

 

[DetroitST]

I thought you had found a little humility…nope…same prick as always. Couldn’t do it yourself so you paid the best to get a copy of a real tune…now you’ll tweak a thing or 2 and call it your own. Seen it happen a hundred times…most people don’t readily admit it in the open though.

I'm not making anything up or fishing for anything. I quoted since you seem to have forgotten what you said. You said, "Seen it happen a hundred times". Is your default mode to just attack (ironically you attacked someone even in that quote as well)? I have no interactions with you other than seeking information. I even said I didn't know much about HPTuners tunes and was trying to get some information based on experience. And instead of citing anything credible, even past experiences, you just fall back to a "Trust me, I know best mentality".

TLDR, Unbroken has seen people copy and tweak tunes from tuners and call them their own "a hundred times".

My question is simply: if it's so easy how are people profitable at tuning? If one person could just clone their tune what would stop them from repackaging/reselling/sharing/etc.? I've only worked with one tuner and it was on a SCT device, but he assured me no one could even open his tune without a password let alone be able to tweak his settings.

 

[DetroitST]

If you have been around it is well known this has been done across multiple platforms, not just the ST. There have been cases of other tuners masquerading as a customer to get their competitors tune to see what they were doing differently. The MPVI series, whether the original, the MPVI2, or the new and current MPVI2+, are powerful tools. That is why many pros prefer them, and the software that accompanies them. There are other products out there that can do similar.

Yes, the files can be locked, and it does make it harder to look at the tables, but not impossible if you know what you are doing. It is not foolproof.

The RTD, while similar to the MPVI2, is lacking in these abilities and is designed for the average consumer.

I hope that clarifies a bit!


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Yes, thank you, this was helpful information. So with a MPVI2+ I can plug in a log a tuned ST, and be able to replicate the settings to ANY other ST I want? Very interesting!

 

[UNBROKEN]

I'm not making anything up or fishing for anything. I quoted since you seem to have forgotten what you said. You said, "Seen it happen a hundred times". Is your default mode to just attack (ironically you attacked someone even in that quote as well)? I have no interactions with you other than seeking information. I even said I didn't know much about HPTuners tunes and was trying to get some information based on experience. And instead of citing anything credible, even past experiences, you just fall back to a "Trust me, I know best mentality".

TLDR, Unbroken has seen people copy and tweak tunes from tuners and call them their own "a hundred times".

My question is simply: if it's so easy how are people profitable at tuning? If one person could just clone their tune what would stop them from repackaging/reselling/sharing/etc.? I've only worked with one tuner and it was on a SCT device, but he assured me no one could even open his tune without a password let alone be able to tweak his settings.

Funny you mention SCT because that’s the first place I saw it happen. A customer of a good friend was having people buy tunes which he was copying and selling as his own under his own business…it happened hundreds of times in that instance alone.

 

[ZFGracing]

All this talk of stealing tunes.

Again it's not what's in the ecu that matters its knowing what to next and how it all comes together. If someone ripped off one of my tunes where would that really get them? Visibility too tables? A lot of the stuff I do for things like Spark torque model and speed density is created external to HP tuners with an algorithm that I wrote. If you don't have that algorithm having one instance of a tune isn't going to help you. Especially on this platform and that's why other big-name tuners are struggling with customer service because they're finding out real fast that you can't just create a template and apply it to every Explorer, these things are finicky. People are paying for experience.


And also now days it's about having completed the emissions testing and being able to provide your reasonable basis documentation... which I can say I have completed and can supply not sure I can say that about any of my competitors in this market. That right there is 10-15k to get done.

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[FORZDA3]

All this talk of stealing tunes.

Again it's not what's in the ecu that matters its knowing what to next and how it all comes together. If someone ripped off one of my tunes where would that really get them? Visibility too tables? A lot of the stuff I do for things like Spark torque model and speed density is created external to HP tuners with an algorithm that I wrote. If you don't have that algorithm having one instance of a tune isn't going to help you. Especially on this platform and that's why other big-name tuners are struggling with customer service because they're finding out real fast that you can't just create a template and apply it to every Explorer, these things are finicky. People are paying for experience.


And also now days it's about having completed the emissions testing and being able to provide your reasonable basis documentation... which I can say I have completed and can supply not sure I can say that about any of my competitors in this market. That right there is 10-15k to get done.

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All true…, and this is why I have great respect for Adam/ZFG and gladly pay his fees for a tune. Yes, I like to tune my own and do on most platforms. However, the vacuum wastegate setup and a couple other areas in the 3.0 ST really kicked my butt when I started on it, such that it would take WAY too much time and testing (risk) to get it nailed down.

As many others have done, I bowed to ZFG knowledge/experience and asked for a tune! Just started the E50 version now. Simple as that!

 

[DetroitST]

For the record, I don't want to steal anything, I was just asking for some clarification. Unbroken was making it seem all too easy for the OP to get Adam's tune, make a few tweaks, call the tune his own, and beat him in a race. Ego/race aside, I was challenging the ease of tweaking a professional's tune. Thanks for chiming in Adam.

 

[UNBROKEN]

For the record, I don't want to steal anything, I was just asking for some clarification. Unbroken was making it seem all too easy for the OP to get Adam's tune, make a few tweaks, call the tune his own, and beat him in a race. Ego/race aside, I was challenging the ease of tweaking a professional's tune. Thanks for chiming in Adam.

Adam is saying the average guy looking at his tune wouldn’t know what to do with it or know why he did what he did.

 

[DetroitST]

To switch gears so to speak... When getting Adam's tune in particular, are all drive modes affected? Would be cool to keep normal, well normal in case someone else needs to drive my car. And obviously sport for adventures. I would be concerned if it affected things like snow, trail, tow. Can anyone weigh in? Thanks.

 

[LokiWolf]

To switch gears so to speak... When getting Adam's tune in particular, are all drive modes affected? Would be cool to keep normal, well normal in case someone else needs to drive my car. And obviously sport for adventures. I would be concerned if it affected things like snow, trail, tow. Can anyone weigh in? Thanks.

Power is the same technically across all modes. How aggressive the throttle is, shift strategies, and other things are obviously different across the modes. Most of his tweaks are in Normal and Sport.


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[FORZDA3]

Ok, took the car out in the relative cool (~60degF) this morning and wasted the first run with all 4 tires spinning for a 12.42 @ 113.7. I turned around right away with zero cool down and with a good hot tire launch, it ran 12.12 @ 114.38. I'm pretty pleased as the car is literally bone stock with 200+ lbs of grandkid/wife support gear in it.

I can see where Loki could (and should) run 11s with some basic prep. The only 0-60 I managed to see was a 4.06 on the first pass, so it was likely in the 3s on the second pass.

All-in-all, ZFG/Adam does a great job with the tuning. I recommend him.

 

[GearHead_1]

Ok, took the car out in the relative cool (~60degF) this morning...

Strip or Draggy?

 

[FORZDA3]

Oh, it was on Dragy. I’ll post up screen shots later. I transposed the mph on the runs. The first run with wheels pin was faster @ 114.38 and the next run much quicker, but a tick slower @ 113.7.

Edit: dragy screen shots

 

[bluesnake01]

Great runs! I take it all of this was with the E50 tune?

 

[FORZDA3]

Yes, ZFG E50 tune only. It RIPS!

 

[Clears]

Quick question for Adam. With all this craziness in California, will we need to remove your tune to pass the smog test with them banning some tunes?

 

[Kgamber2]

So I’m new and 3 weeks away from being a new st owner. I read this entire thread and clearly you all know more than me. I can’t and will never understand tuning. How can I get a flash from someone who knows how to tune? I’m talking about someone adjusting whatever needs adjusting after the tuner has arrived in the mail.

 

[bluesnake01]

Quick question for Adam. With all this craziness in California, will we need to remove your tune to pass the smog test with them banning some tunes?

Even if you did, you wouldnt need to worry for the next 6 years anyways.

Thats of course if you get the tune to begin with, which you're not able to ship it directly to California.

 

[GearHead_1]

So I’m new and 3 weeks away from being a new st owner. I read this entire thread and clearly you all know more than me. I can’t and will never understand tuning. How can I get a flash from someone who knows how to tune? I’m talking about someone adjusting whatever needs adjusting after the tuner has arrived in the mail.

Maybe I'm missing something in your question here.

Adam (@ZFGracing) can certainly do that for you and is a favorite recommendation for this forum by members who have used him. He'll send you a safe base tune, you run it and log it if you wish, send him the log back and he adjusts accordingly. Other Tuners do this too. It's kind of what is expected in mail/interweb order tuning today.