Other turbo upgrade options?

[TMac]

@bosephbarking , good job, and actually, you forced my hand. However...(I think I'm reading your post correctly) a higher turbine A/R will "bring in power" later rather than sooner. The EFR turbos are pretty much state of the art at the time I'm writing this, not only because of the bearings, but because they use a lightweight "gamma ti" (titanium aluminide) turbine wheel. Combined with some other innovations they are best in class in friction, weight, and aerodynamics at this point.

When I started writing the "single turbo build" thread, the 9174 was under $2200. If you look at that thread, it is an incredibly good match for the ST engine. If you look at the compressor map of the 9174 and match it up to the numbers I posted here you'll see what I mean.

I haven't finished that thread, but bear with me for a minute- in my estimation, at least on a 93 octane, 30% ethanol pump gas, from the design of the ST engine- bore/stroke/GDI, I would estimate a 2.6 pressure ratio would be attainable. So look at the 9174 compressor map and the numbers I posted as stated above. I looked at scores of compressor maps, and that one was the overall winner. .

For anyone who can't decipher the math- it means you could have a single turbo ST on "pump gas" producing approx 550 WHP. And assuming you can provide enough fueling, that same setup could net over 700 WHP on e85, without taxing that turbo.

 

[bosephbarking]

Tmac, you are correct high A/R will spool more slowly. Though the 9174 can be had with an .83 A/R T3 flange so that should provide power relatively similar to the power band of the stock turbos and possibly sooner. The twin scroll version is .92 and you could expect it to spool on par or slightly after the smaller housing.

Regardless of housing choice, it would really boil down to your header length. I haven't looked at the how but I'm willing to bet it will be a PITA to get equal length runners. You'll probably end up with some crazy rams horn type design.

 

[UNBROKEN]

Tmac, you are correct high A/R will spool more slowly. Though the 9174 can be had with an .83 A/R T3 flange so that should provide power relatively similar to the power band of the stock turbos and possibly sooner. The twin scroll version is .92 and you could expect it to spool on par or slightly after the smaller housing.

Regardless of housing choice, it would really boil down to your header length. I haven't looked at the how but I'm willing to bet it will be a PITA to get equal length runners. You'll probably end up with some crazy rams horn type design.

It would be a single pipe from each head to the merge for the turbo and would probably be pretty easy to make each one the same length.

 

[bosephbarking]

It would be a single pipe from each head to the merge for the turbo and would probably be pretty easy to make each one the same length.

I was specifically thinking about the 3 to 1 collection and the turns it would need to make.

 

[TMac]

I was specifically thinking about the 3 to 1 collection and the turns it would need to make.

You're missing the point, there is no 3-1 collector. The turbos are integrated into the head with the turbines bolted in place. There are no "headers" @UNBROKEN is right, only two pipes need to be fabricated to the single turbine entry- pretty much taking the place of the existing cold side intake pipes. So you can use either the T3 or divided T3 turbine flanges.

 

[jwuonog]

The 3.0 Ecoboost has a "headifold" design, where the manifold is internal, and meets the turbo at one combined port:



Personally, I would love to have a G series on my Explorer, or maybe two of them.

 

[TMac]

@jwuonog Believe me, I researched this exhaustively. The only G series dual would be the G25-550- which aren't a great match, would more than double the price (those are NOT cheap), and not only would you have to fab the intake pipes, downpipes, and charge pipes, not to mention the need to deal with the boost control on the best selection of A/R turbines..., means even more fabrication for twin wastegates. Very, very expensive.

The best single turbo in the Garrett line is the G40/G30-900 for this engine. However, if you look at it in comparison to the BW 9174, it has nowhere near the headroom, and the RPM change across the operating range (ST gearing) is higher than the BW unit. When I have more time, I'll add this info to the "single turbo" thread.

If I had seen more interest in that thread, I would have completed that info sooner!

 

[bosephbarking]

You're missing the point, there is no 3-1 collector. The turbos are integrated into the head with the turbines bolted in place. There are no "headers" @UNBROKEN is right, only two pipes need to be fabricated to the single turbine entry- pretty much taking the place of the existing cold side intake pipes. So you can use either the T3 or divided T3 turbine flanges.

I stand corrected. I did not realize it was an integrated manifold. Please excuse my ignorance on that matter. I am used to older motors.

 

[jwuonog]

@TMac I have read your thread and appreciate all the detailed info in it, but didn't want to clutter it up, as it is your build thread.

Have you compared any of the newer G45 and up turbos too?

 

[TMac]

@TMac I have read your thread and appreciate all the detailed info in it, but didn't want to clutter it up, as it is your build thread.

Have you compared any of the newer G45 and up turbos too?

Too big. Match up my mass flow numbers and pressure ratios from here against any compressor maps you wish. Also remember to consider the compressor RPM drop across gear changes- that'll help in understanding transient response. You cannot do better than the 9174 on this engine, especially since we can use the twin scroll turbine with internal wastegate to make fabrication easier and keep costs down.

I started that build thread with another "response thread" in a misguided attempt to get around timing issues. I (and @STFan ) merged them back as the attempt just led to confusion. Y'all are welcome to respond, reply, ask questions and post suggestions in the build thread at any time! To be honest, other than some early enthusiasm, there was so little interaction that I just figured no one really cared. This is a great forum, but not a particularly performance oriented one.

 

[jwuonog]

I stand corrected. I did not realize it was an integrated manifold. Please excuse my ignorance on that matter. I am used to older motors.

No worries! I am used to older motors too. When I first looked under the hood of my Focus ST (a 2.0L Ecoboost), I couldn't find the BPV anywhere, until I finally realized it was integrated into the compressor housing, and wondering where the heck the exhaust manifold was . The torque targeting strategy on the Ecoboosts was new to me too.

While I appreciate custom fab work, I wish a company would make a bolt-on kit that replaces the stock turbos with something bigger. I wonder if there is even room there, and what it would take to get a company interested in that...

 

[MacandCheeseST]

Has anyone installed the PureTurbos or any CR turbos? i have the pure turbos in the garage.... and have installed the charge piping- CAI - bov - etc.. just never got around to the turbos cause i honestly i have yet to see any videos on how to install them.. are they pretty straight forward? I have a zfg93 and e50 tune, rarely run the e50 as CT doesnt sell e85.

Just want to make sure i dont need to get under the truck - i have no lift available- good with a wrench, do most work/upgrade maintenance myself. Soo i think i can do it..lol

this is the last of the mods i want to run on this truck - just trying to see if i really need to pay a shop 1400$ to do the work when i can more than likely do it myself.

 

[jwuonog]

Has anyone installed the PureTurbos or any CR turbos? i have the pure turbos in the garage.... and have installed the charge piping- CAI - bov - etc.. just never got around to the turbos cause i honestly i have yet to see any videos on how to install them.. are they pretty straight forward? I have a zfg93 and e50 tune, rarely run the e50 as CT doesnt sell e85.

Just want to make sure i dont need to get under the truck - i have no lift available- good with a wrench, do most work/upgrade maintenance myself. Soo i think i can do it..lol

this is the last of the mods i want to run on this truck - just trying to see if i really need to pay a shop 1400$ to do the work when i can more than likely do it myself.

I haven't done it, but you will definitely need to get under the car. It should be pretty straightforward. Disconnect any piping (intake, charge pipes, downpipe), oil and coolant lines, the turbo itself, and then replace and reinstall.

I have no idea what else needs to be removed to get access there.

 

[paSTa]

Has anyone installed the PureTurbos or any CR turbos? i have the pure turbos in the garage.... and have installed the charge piping- CAI - bov - etc.. just never got around to the turbos cause i honestly i have yet to see any videos on how to install them.. are they pretty straight forward? I have a zfg93 and e50 tune, rarely run the e50 as CT doesnt sell e85.

Just want to make sure i dont need to get under the truck - i have no lift available- good with a wrench, do most work/upgrade maintenance myself. Soo i think i can do it..lol

this is the last of the mods i want to run on this truck - just trying to see if i really need to pay a shop 1400$ to do the work when i can more than likely do it myself.

Im not sure where you're located in CT but theres now a shell station near Waterbury off I-84 in Southington that has e85 now! Makes it a hell of a lot easier for me lol

 

[WaferTech]

I have not done it, seems it could be done if you use a Engine Support Bar to hang the motor after using wheel cribs to lift the vehicle.

You may want to check the online service manual. A 72 hour pass is about $22 at

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Home/Pricing.



Check section : 303-04E Fuel Charging and Controls - Turbocharger - 3.0L EcoBoost 2022 Explorer Removal and Installation

 

[jeffreybehr]

Best gas we have in North Phoenix that I have seen so far is 91. And so far haven’t come across any ethanol options. So sounds like for me that doesn’t make sense. So I guess aside from cosmetic improvements (looks or sound), really the only way to get more power from these trucks in a cost effective manner is to add an intercooler and a tune. Seems like the rest while fun won’t improve performance measurably. Does that about sum it up for people that just want to run 91 octane fuel?

This...
https://boostane.com/products/boostane-premium-octane-booster-16-oz-bottle