Rear end damage

[twin001]

I'm pretty sure one could design an appropriate brace for these "single bolt" subframes that would work fine for a lot less money and effort than replacing the entire subframe.

Brett @ Fenfab has done this

 

[TMac]

Yes, I saw it, and posted about it earlier in the thread. That's why I posted "appropriate".

 

[Webhito]

Following this thread closely as I also have mine tuned, mind you, its from Unleashed and only 91 octane, but if anything breaks its guaranteed my local and Mexican Ford will tell me to take a hike.

 

[Fordman]

Performing the install myself is not an issue, but paying $1200-1500 dollars for a rear subframe that should have been installed at the factory, that I have a problem with. I worked at a Ford dealership from 1988-2008 as a Ford senior master tech, I‘d have to say Ford really f’d us over on this one. Ford will most likely say it was a design change as the 4th bolt was not needed and will not recall the 3 bolt versions, and most likely not put out a TSB on the issue either.

I can see it now, the Ford tech at the dealership calls the hotline and tells the Ford engineer that this is the 3rd Explorer ST that he has had with the broken rear bolt, what is Fords fix for this? The Ford engineer replies “really, this Is the first I’ve heard of this issue”, beside his desk is a box full of broken rear bolts and a 3 bolt rear subframe!!

 

[UpinBst]

Performing the install myself is not an issue, but paying $1200-1500 dollars for a rear subframe that should have been installed at the factory, that I have a problem with. I worked at a Ford dealership from 1988-2008 as a Ford senior master tech, I‘d have to say Ford really f’d us over on this one. Ford will most likely say it was a design change as the 4th bolt was not needed and will not recall the 3 bolt versions, and most likely not put out a TSB on the issue either.

I can see it now, the Ford tech at the dealership calls the hotline and tells the Ford engineer that this is the 3rd Explorer ST that he has had with the broken rear bolt, what is Fords fix for this? The Ford engineer replies “really, this Is the first I’ve heard of this issue”, beside his desk is a box full of broken rear bolts and a 3 bolt rear subframe!!

It should absolutely be a recall. How many of these things are out there loaded full of kids? Reading the OP post describing what the car did when it broken is a recipe for disaster for someone pulling out in traffic and hammering down on it. We only hear about the few that have broken on the web from people who are car savvy, pay attention and care to share. Most, I would assume would just have the car towed to the dealer to be fixed under warranty and are more than likely oblivious to what was replaced. Tuned or untuned it appears to be problem that needs to be immediately addressed.

Is there any known failures of stock units with untouched pcm's? Honestly, a tune only causing this breakage is baffling to me. I'm very curious what our 22 is going to come with because I am Not easy on cars

 

[UpinBst]

Now im curious as to what subframe the 2022 model's will have especially considering all 3.0l's will come with ST's tune.

Wonder if there were any 21 models with the 2 bolt rear, im sure the 2 bolt rear subframes didnt just magically end for the 2020 models.

I see this becoming a bigger issue for Ford, well the 21 owners, in the upcoming years

Not all 22's with the 3.0 have the same calibration. The Platinum and King Ranch have the same power level calibration as the ST the others have a de-tuned version.

 

[schaggatron]

Pic he posted. Very strange that Ford would have made the change to the single rear bolt, especially since the differential cover is still cast for the two.

View attachment 8460

Do you know what the torque spec on that might be?

 

[jrgoffin]

Got a little more curious about something else here, and had to check the build tag on the subframe since I wanted to see the engineering number (which is different from the part number). On my ST which has the four differential bolts, the number on the tag is MLB5C-5B564-AA as shown below.



Interestingly enough, the engineering number for the base model subframe with the three bolts is the same, although the example I found below is from '19 (and before mine was built). Who knows, maybe Ford did decide at some point to make the change on all models, thinking it would save them some $$$. Ironically, if many of the vehicles come back with damage due to this, it will cost them a lot more in the long run. Still worth looking in to for those with the revised subframe.

Do you know what the torque spec on that might be?

The rear bolt(s) torque is 148 lb.ft. (200 Nm).

 

[UpinBst]

Something else dawned on me with the intelligent 4WD.. These newer versions are primarily RWD until wheel slip is detected then transfers power to the front wheels. From what I read unless there is wheel slip, power goes directly to the rear. Another thing that comes to mind is wheel Hop. Wheel hop breaks things, a lot of things due to drive train shock. Stabbing throttle, launching it or pedaling it in slippery conditions then gain traction can be horrible when sudden traction is made. It only takes a jolt of tire slip-to-traction to create a massive amount of torque and torque is usually what sheers things off. That sudden torque is what breaks stuff or stress cracks things which most of the time go unnoticed until a catastrophic failure occurs. Then you find it.

The other thing I would like to see is the 2x4 versions coming out and how they are set up.

 

[bluesnake01]

Not all 22's with the 3.0 have the same calibration. The Platinum and King Ranch have the same power level calibration as the ST the others have a de-tuned version.

Those are the only trims that offer the 3.0.... Unless there's a new trim that we're not aware of?

 

[F=MA]

Get the ladder bars out.

 

[TMac]

LOL, but hard to hook up ladder bars or snubbers to an IRS!

 

[GearHead_1]

Beat me to it.

 

[F=MA]

Really ?




Hellstar said Ladder Bars...

 

[UpinBst]

Those are the only trims that offer the 3.0.... Unless there's a new trim that we're not aware of?

Nope, you are correct. Excuse my ignorance I completely screwed that up in more ways than one. It was my understanding from some early articles I had read that it was expected that the Platinum and KR were going to have the same power plant with a less power calibration 365/380tq. The ST would have the 400/415tq calibration. Either way I screwed that up when I typed that this morning, my apologies.

We ordered back in sept before the site was updated and information from the dealer and every other source I could find was/is hit or miss with accuracy. I had also been told from a local dealer when we went and drove a few 21's they had on the lot the 3.0L was going to be an option in the Xlt although, I never personally confirmed it. All I know is the 2.3 is a straight up turd and I've been trying to piece all this stuff together on a new (To Me) platform I had zero knowledge about 3 months ago. Thanks for catching that

 

[GearHead_1]

I don't think the 2.3 is a bad engine. It's not in the same league when it comes to moving a 4700 lb. vehicle down the road but these engines are no slouch either.

 

[Clears]

Welp...... just got the Explorer back from aFe. Looks like I am one of the lucky 3 bolt 21's. Son of a......

 

[Chrispw24]

Nice. I will for sure get that. Thanks for the info

 

[Chrispw24]

Well, I just went out and looked at mine and they put the 4 bolt one in there. So they replaced it with the correct one. Very interesting.

 

[Chrispw24]

did they replace the subframe with one bolt to the two rear bolts?

They replaced with the two rear bolt one!!