Rear end damage

[ghostfranklin]

@TMac it is a shitty move by Ford period, and no doubt a cost saving move. "Ford has tweaked the price of the 2022 Explorer ST version by $2000 making it more affordable."

Whether it was actually cheaper or just kept production going who knows. I would have much rather waited given the option for four bolt. You pointed out we (people that modify our vehicles) represent a tiny minority of their overall sales which is also true.

Ford's Q1 2021 sales were 65,244 units ~25% being STs yielding 16,311. If 1% of us mod that means 163 warranty claims vs 1.95M saved assuming it shaved $30. Even if a warranty claim is 10k a pop they still save over 300k. But based on the value engineering I would imagine they saved more than $30 on the 3 bolt subframe which would only widen that profit margin.

I don't think people are whining, I think people are justifiably disappointed that Ford decided to value engineer a 60k flagship "performance" vehicle. I do agree with you adding power comes with what it comes with, which is why I'm biting the bullet like Forzda3 and just doing it right from the jump.

@ZookaRoo I'm taking care of it now because I don't feel like dealing with the bs. It'll break at the most inconvenient time and be a hassle (additional damage to drivetrain, tow, warranty claim and process, quality of workmanship by ford dealer when doing the work, not being able to go w/e I was headed, etc etc) even if the warranty claim goes smoothly.

 

[Cruising68]

I''m not gonna lie, I'm thinking about a subframe. On the fence for sure. I've blown a motor at 150mph, broken suspension parts at speed. It's not pretty. I am a risk taker but a calculated risk taker I like to think. A little insurance goes a long way sometimes. I've got a diffy stiffy but I think I will take a look when I take delivery and see what I think. I plan on HP upgrades and beating on my Explorer and the last thing I need is a big car bill or a hospital bill I've got too many of those thank you.

 

[TMac]

@ghostfranklin Thanks for doing the research, but there's just a couple of things I'd like to clarify from your post- The first statement seems to be attributed to me- I didn't make either of those assertions.

Second, the number of Ford STs is supposedly 20% of sales, so if your numbers are right then the number of STs is more likely around 13k units. If the subframe bolt and dampener were about $30 that would mean a savings of around $390k. Using your numbers and adjusting only for STs and not the other three bolt systems at 1% failure rate, that's around 130 claims. Based on your projection of the potential destruction at $10k for driveshafts, diffs, half shafts, and labor that would equal $1.3M in warranty claims. We won't even talk about the fact that in the worst case, such a problem could result in consumer deaths and all the negatives that implies. So I'm not sure that it's a "Ford just tried to save a few bucks" scenario.

Ford, like every other manufacturer is certainly in the business to make money. When this problem was first pointed out, I thought it could be attributed to the pandemic and supply issues. I wasn't convinced it was being done purposely by Ford to save a few bucks. Now that we see that 2022s are still coming with the 3 bolt frame, it has to be attributed to engineering deciding that there was no need for additional bracing based on the specs.

 

[st8]

@ghostfranklin Thanks for doing the research, but there's just a couple of things I'd like to clarify from your post- The first statement seems to be attributed to me- I didn't make either of those assertions.

Second, the number of Ford STs is supposedly 20% of sales, so if your numbers are right then the number of STs is more likely around 13k units. If the subframe bolt and dampener were about $30 that would mean a savings of around $390k. Using your numbers and adjusting only for STs and not the other three bolt systems at 1% failure rate, that's around 130 claims. Based on your projection of the potential destruction at $10k for driveshafts, diffs, half shafts, and labor that would equal $1.3M in warranty claims. We won't even talk about the fact that in the worst case, such a problem could result in consumer deaths and all the negatives that implies. So I'm not sure that it's a "Ford just tried to save a few bucks" scenario.

Ford, like every other manufacturer is certainly in the business to make money. When this problem was first pointed out, I thought it could be attributed to the pandemic and supply issues. I wasn't convinced it was being done purposely by Ford to save a few bucks. Now that we see that 2022s are still coming with the 3 bolt frame, it has to be attributed to engineering deciding that there was no need for additional bracing based on the specs.

I want to think you’re right and they just felt 4 was unnecessary. But then why do aviators with our same engine come with the 4 bolt design?

 

[Dark Knight]

^^^ and the PIU all seem to have it too

 

[TMac]

I wouldn't dispute that the 4 bolt design is most likely stronger. As far as Aviators, they can also have the electric unit, so can produce a lot more torque and perhaps there's even an NVH aspect. And as far as PIU- everything on that unit is over engineered within reason and for a reason. I'll say it one last time, cuz I'm done with this thread....if you are going to add an additional 20-25% more torque/hp than came from the factory, deal with it.

 

[sadeen]

The Aviators and PIUs have to support the additional immediately available torque from Hybrid platform? Just a guess.

 

[st8]

The Aviators and PIUs have to support the additional immediately available torque from Hybrid platform? Just a guess.

Not all of the aviators have the electric platform. There are versions with identical engine as the st.
I’m guessing since all the aviators are on the same line, they just give all of them the 4 bolt design.

 

[Cdubya]

The Aviators and PIUs have to support the additional immediately available torque from Hybrid platform? Just a guess.

If i recall, the hybrid Explorer subframe (not including PIU or aviators) is a 3 bolt.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

The hybrid EX is close to the 2.3 in power so the 3 bolt is more than adequate.

 

[Dark Knight]

The Aviators and PIUs have to support the additional immediately available torque from Hybrid platform? Just a guess.

no, PIU available as hybrid, NA and turbo, 3L turbo most powerful, nobody I know likes the hybrid

 

[sadeen]

Yes.

 

[bluesnake01]

I want to think you’re right and they just felt 4 was unnecessary. But then why do aviators with our same engine come with the 4 bolt design?

Aviators also have a different suspension set-up. Most of the time as well, top of line Luxury brands get the best of the best.

 

[ghostfranklin]

LOL, so the Ford dealer cannot find the part Cross Member Assembly - Ford (MB5Z-5035-A). According to their parts dept MB5Z-5035-A is on back order and has been "replaced" in the notes section by MB5Z-5035-E (3 bolt sub). Checking with Tasca now per FORDZA's recommendation otherwise I'll guess I'll just have to play Russian Roulette with the driveline and hope my warranty claim doesn't get voided out due to mods like the other members that have posted and Ford foots the bill. What an awesome experience.

 

[ghostfranklin]

Hi @FORZDA3 Tasca has MB5Z-5035-A on back order with no ETA. The local dealer doesn't have it. Any suggestions before I just let Jesus take the wheel? I'm all for Ford footing the bill but like TMac said trying to bite the bullet and get out in front of it was the intention here.

 

[Dale5403]

Hi @FORZDA3 Tasca has MB5Z-5035-A on back order with no ETA. The local dealer doesn't have it. Any suggestions before I just let Jesus take the wheel? I'm all for Ford footing the bill but like TMac said trying to bite the bullet and get out in front of it was the intention here.

This website let me add the part to an order. https://www.oemfordpart.com/oem-parts/ford-cross-member-assembly-mb5z5035a
I didn't complete the order but it might be worth a try. Good luck.

 

[FORZDA3]

LOL, so the Ford dealer cannot find the part Cross Member Assembly - Ford (MB5Z-5035-A). According to their parts dept MB5Z-5035-A is on back order and has been "replaced" in the notes section by MB5Z-5035-E (3 bolt sub). Checking with Tasca now per FORDZA's recommendation otherwise I'll guess I'll just have to play Russian Roulette with the driveline and hope my warranty claim doesn't get voided out due to mods like the other members that have posted and Ford foots the bill. What an awesome experience.

STOP! I think you have missed the details in my earlier posts. The MB5Z-5035-E is the latest version of the 4-bolt subframe for all applications that require 4-bolts. I have the correct 4-bolt part, that I ordered through TascaParts.com, sitting here (well, outside under my RV). Order the MB5Z-5035-E as it is the correct 4-bolt part. Note it took a long while to get it, so you won’t find one with persistence. Just order and wait…

 

[Cmaximst]

STOP! I think you have missed the details in my earlier posts. The MB5Z-5035-E is the latest version of the 4-bolt subframe for all applications that require 4-bolts. I have the correct 4-bolt part, that I ordered through TascaParts.com, sitting here (well, outside under my RV). Order the MB5Z-5035-E as it is the correct 4-bolt part. Note it took a long while to get it, so you won’t find one with persistence. Just order and wait…

STOP! I think you have missed the details in my earlier posts. The MB5Z-5035-E is the latest version of the 4-bolt subframe for all applications that require 4-bolts. I have the correct 4-bolt part, that I ordered through TascaParts.com, sitting here (well, outside under my RV). Order the MB5Z-5035-E as it is the correct 4-bolt part. Note it took a long while to get it, so you won’t find one with persistence. Just order and wait…

STOP! I think you have missed the details in my earlier posts. The MB5Z-5035-E is the latest version of the 4-bolt subframe for all applications that require 4-bolts. I have the correct 4-bolt part, that I ordered through TascaParts.com, sitting here (well, outside under my RV). Order the MB5Z-5035-E as it is the correct 4-bolt part. Note it took a long while to get it, so you won’t find one with persistence. Just order and wait…

STOP! I think you have missed the details in my earlier posts. The MB5Z-5035-E is the latest version of the 4-bolt subframe for all applications that require 4-bolts. I have the correct 4-bolt part, that I ordered through TascaParts.com, sitting here (well, outside under my RV). Order the MB5Z-5035-E as it is the correct 4-bolt part. Note it took a long while to get it, so you won’t find one with persistence. Just order and wait…

Well, not yet for the MY2021. The Ford parts web sites only list accessories for 2021, so we’ll have to wait until they update (if ever!) before you can search all parts by vin. You can call the dealer parts Dept and ask them to look it up for you though…

 

[Cmaximst]

So……..will Ford be making future STs with this part or are they just for replacement or purchase by the lucky ones that have to shell out$$ to make their vehicles correct?

 

[FORZDA3]

So……..will Ford be making future STs with this part or are they just for replacement or purchase by the lucky ones that have to shell out$$ to make their vehicles correct?

Can’t say for sure if/when Ford will use the MB5Z-5035-E on the assembly line like they should, but it’s what you get if ordered through the Ford parts systems. AFAIK, they’re no real differences in the MB5Z-5035-A & -E.

I think it’s Fords way of fixing their system. The Ford parts system may have listed them as interchangeable initially as technically they fit correctly. They always move forward with changes/fixes, never backwards.