-
Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features
Welcome to the #1 Explorer ST Forum and Explorer ST community dedicated to Explorer ST owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the Explorer ST Forum today!
Rear end damage
- Thread starter Chrispw24
- Start date
One less thing for you then. 
The worst part is a lot of the sub frame bolts are use once throw away. I've got maybe $50 in bolts. Still haven't decided if I'm going to bite the bullet and do it myself or break out my wallet.
I put a hold on an ST to buy just over a month ago, off the lot, and the day I was going to pick it up they called and said they couldn't deliver due to this recall. I finally got it 3 days ago and can confirm the parking brake automatically engages in park on any degree of incline now. So the PCM update must be rolling out already.
It was worth the wait.. I love this thing.
It was worth the wait.. I love this thing.
-
3
- Show All
You cannot brace a differential as ford has done and have a 400HP with similar torque motor to it and not have the thing bend bolts or snap bolts.
This is why the bolt is breaking...
In this video is a Pontiac Solstice. It is the first year they were released. The following year the problem was corrected. At the 2:00 mark in the video you are going to see the nose of the differential pitch upwards. This is what a differential wants to do when accelerating. That is because of the torsional forces being applied to the ground. Those same forces are what cause the nose of a drag car to lift off the ground, it is the nose of the differential that is going the lifting.
GM also ha a bad way of attaching the diff on a vehicle that had only 170HP/TQ and the car only weighs 2900lbs so easier to move.
See how the nose of the diff is bouncing up and down. This driver was only driving the car and it was not gunning it off the line which is when the problem is the worst. Even when there are the 2 bolts in place the bolts may not break but there is still the pitching that is occurring and this is going to trash the input shaft bearings on the diff and I would be suprised if the bolts didn't bend.
How GM corrected the problem for the Solstice is the ONLY proper way to correct the problem and that is to install a torque bar that bolts onto the nose of the differential and heads down the propeller shaft tunnel and then bolts to the tail of the transmission. Leverage is what gets used to hold the nose of the differential in proper alignment with the transmission and stops that rotation of the differential.
Trying to fix this issue in any other manner is going to require the use of rubber mounts and the differential is still going to move around and put stresses on those mounts. There also has to b structure under the vehicle that is able to hold the diff and I don't think there is anything that can be easily bolted to that would solve the issue.
This is why the bolt is breaking...
In this video is a Pontiac Solstice. It is the first year they were released. The following year the problem was corrected. At the 2:00 mark in the video you are going to see the nose of the differential pitch upwards. This is what a differential wants to do when accelerating. That is because of the torsional forces being applied to the ground. Those same forces are what cause the nose of a drag car to lift off the ground, it is the nose of the differential that is going the lifting.
GM also ha a bad way of attaching the diff on a vehicle that had only 170HP/TQ and the car only weighs 2900lbs so easier to move.
See how the nose of the diff is bouncing up and down. This driver was only driving the car and it was not gunning it off the line which is when the problem is the worst. Even when there are the 2 bolts in place the bolts may not break but there is still the pitching that is occurring and this is going to trash the input shaft bearings on the diff and I would be suprised if the bolts didn't bend.
How GM corrected the problem for the Solstice is the ONLY proper way to correct the problem and that is to install a torque bar that bolts onto the nose of the differential and heads down the propeller shaft tunnel and then bolts to the tail of the transmission. Leverage is what gets used to hold the nose of the differential in proper alignment with the transmission and stops that rotation of the differential.
Trying to fix this issue in any other manner is going to require the use of rubber mounts and the differential is still going to move around and put stresses on those mounts. There also has to b structure under the vehicle that is able to hold the diff and I don't think there is anything that can be easily bolted to that would solve the issue.
The funny thing about the parking brake thing they are doing. That is not a fix for the problem. The bolt will still snap. The parking break being activated when the car is put into park is so when someone pulls over after the bolt has broken and puts the vehicle in park and then gets out if the axle pulled out of the diff the car will roll away making a bad issue a whole lot worse. having the parking brake set when putting it in park makes it so the car will not roll away. It i no way fixes the problem. The recall is so Ford doesn't get sued when a vehicle goes rolling down a hill and runs someone over. The blame can then be placed on the owner for not getting the recall performed and removes Ford as being the responsible party.
While there may be support for the front of the diff there is an inherent design flaw in using the kind of system they used to hold the diff. One user had mentioned upgrading the bushings in the front mounts so the diff would not move around as much. This is a great idea except the mounts are bolted to the frame on the car. You end up hearing every single sound the diff makes inside the vehicle. The bushings on the front mounts need to remain soft enough o as little noise as possible gets transferred to the inside of the vehicle. So the snout of the differential ends up rocking during acceleration. The mounts attached to the back of the diff also have to remain soft so noise does not transfer. This is where a torque arm works the best. zero transfer on noise to the vehicle compartment and it stops the differential from pitching upwards at the nose during acceleration. The torque arm is not attached the body or frame of the vehicle at all and it uses the weight of the engine and transmission to solve the problem. This is not a new idea and has been used for as long as I have been alive and I am sure it has been around since some of the first high torque vehicles were made.
The reason why manufacturers are moving away from the design is because it work, it works without failure in most cases. That means no parts revenue when the vehicle gets old. Bushings go bad with use and also time they are almost guaranteed revenue in the future. I bet those bushings cost a decent chunk of money as well. what is the total cost to replace all of the bushings that hold the diff in place?
The reason why manufacturers are moving away from the design is because it work, it works without failure in most cases. That means no parts revenue when the vehicle gets old. Bushings go bad with use and also time they are almost guaranteed revenue in the future. I bet those bushings cost a decent chunk of money as well. what is the total cost to replace all of the bushings that hold the diff in place?
So is the differential in that video. It also is supported at the nose of it.
This is the issue. In order to support the differential close to the differential like what is done in the Explorer ST and also The first year Pontiac Solstice the bushings that hold the differential are going to be of a softer compound. This is to keep noise from the differential getting into the frame/subframe and ending up in the passenger compartment. The diff end up moving around alot and it will blow out the bushings and or break bolts if there is not enough of them to hold the diff in place.
Using a torque arm from the diff top the transmission will stop almost 100% of the diff movement all together.Because the arm is attached to the transmission and no the body there are no rubber mounts holding it. The oil filled engine mount do what they are designed to do and the facory diff mounts now end up being more of an insulator and are only there to hold the position of the diff and not be impacted by the torque.
This is the issue. In order to support the differential close to the differential like what is done in the Explorer ST and also The first year Pontiac Solstice the bushings that hold the differential are going to be of a softer compound. This is to keep noise from the differential getting into the frame/subframe and ending up in the passenger compartment. The diff end up moving around alot and it will blow out the bushings and or break bolts if there is not enough of them to hold the diff in place.
Using a torque arm from the diff top the transmission will stop almost 100% of the diff movement all together.Because the arm is attached to the transmission and no the body there are no rubber mounts holding it. The oil filled engine mount do what they are designed to do and the facory diff mounts now end up being more of an insulator and are only there to hold the position of the diff and not be impacted by the torque.
-
1
- Show All
It doesn't really "lack" any support in the rear as it has what is required according to the manufacturer's design specifications.
This is supported by FORD's data where 99.907% of vehicles involved have not experienced issues (235 of 252,936).
It's when those design specifications are exceeded by adding 100+ hp and 150+ lb ft while spending all day at the drag strip do you see complaints.
Let's put this into perspective: If this were a widespread issue, there would at least be a 10% failure rate. That would mean 25,293 reported breaks, not 235.
This is supported by FORD's data where 99.907% of vehicles involved have not experienced issues (235 of 252,936).
It's when those design specifications are exceeded by adding 100+ hp and 150+ lb ft while spending all day at the drag strip do you see complaints.
Let's put this into perspective: If this were a widespread issue, there would at least be a 10% failure rate. That would mean 25,293 reported breaks, not 235.
-
1
- Show All
