ST vs. The Competition

[Forddealz]

BMW x5 M series starts at just a tad under $90k.

I am not talking about the X5 M 4.4 liter V8 with like 600 hp. I am talking about the X5 40I that is a 6 cylinder. It can be equipped with M sports package and rims that are up to 22 inches. It would cost just around 70K or a little above that. I think they boosted the HP up to like 375 and with a tune it could probably be competing with the ST.

 

[st8]

I am not talking about the X5 M 4.4 liter V8 with like 600 hp. I am talking about the X5 40I that is a 6 cylinder. It can be equipped with M sports package and rims that are up to 22 inches. It would cost just around 70K or a little above that. I think they boosted the HP up to like 375 and with a tune it could probably be competing with the ST.

Ahh gotcha

 

[l1tech]

I am not talking about the X5 M 4.4 liter V8 with like 600 hp. I am talking about the X5 40I that is a 6 cylinder. It can be equipped with M sports package and rims that are up to 22 inches. It would cost just around 70K or a little above that. I think they boosted the HP up to like 375 and with a tune it could probably be competing with the ST.

Even the lower hp ones are on par with the the ST if you are comparing 0-60 and 1/4 times. Overall the X5 is a much better vehicle but the ST does look better.

 

[Cajun Heat]

Wait what!!!

German vehicles do not have remote start due to regulations surrounding having a idling car without the driver being in the car, in Germany.

 

[Ljn21]

German vehicles do not have remote start due to regulations surrounding having a idling car without the driver being in the car, in Germany.

Our 2021 X5 and 2023 X3 both have remote start from the factory. Can use the key fob or app to start it or even schedule it to start a certain time/day ahead of time.

 

[Cajun Heat]

Our 2021 X5 and 2023 X3 both have remote start from the factory. Can use the key fob or app to start it or even schedule it to start a certain time/day ahead of time.

Thanks for the correction on that point. It seems to be vehicles that were produced after 2019 for BMW and if they were manufactured in the US, X5 & X3, have remote start in them. They don't have to oblige the German regulations.

 

[bluesnake01]

Thanks for the correction on that point. It seems to be vehicles that were produced after 2019 for BMW and if they were manufactured in the US, X5 & X3, have remote start in them. They don't have to oblige the German regulations.

You can also add the remote start option anytime even if they weren't ordered with them. $300 and it'll send an update to the car to add the remote start.

Also, if you have comfort access option, you can use your phone as a key and/or NFC card that can be stored in your wallet. Nice perks of BMW's.

 

[pyroguy]

Interesting comparison. However, the Chevrolet competition to the Explorer is the Traverse, not the Tahoe. That said, having semi recently purchased my Explorer and a life long GM fan, the Traverse had a lot lacking in features, options, and power. The primary comparable feature was the price point. The Traverse rode better, but there was just far too much lacking compared to the Explorer for the price you pay.

 

[st8]

New Mazda cx90 looks nice and has an inline 6 for power. It’s still low to mid 6s so not quite ST performance. But definitely a sharp looking suv and has that Mazda handling and interior design.

 

[Kermit1320]

Our ST has been nothing but smiles and good times. One of the better vehicles I have owned.

I'm new here, so forgive my stupidity -- but I've seen referenced a few times a $600 mod for 100hp+. Please please tell me more. That is a phenomenal bang for the buck!

 

[Cajun Heat]

Our ST has been nothing but smiles and good times. One of the better vehicles I have owned.

I'm new here, so forgive my stupidity -- but I've seen referenced a few times a $600 mod for 100hp+. Please please tell me more. That is a phenomenal bang for the buck!

Congrats on your purchase and welcome.

The cost is about $850 but this is what you are looking for depending on where you live. Not legal in some states.

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/product-page/2020-21-ford-explorer-3-0l-zfg-racing-custom-tune

 

[R2D2]

The second reason why I went with ST is the finance offers (close to 0% APR while others were 5 to 7) and discounts that brings down overall price (I got it 5k below sticker over a month of negotiations).

Primary is that I love Ford (the way they drive and never had issues in the other Ford I still own) Explorer (exterior design, 6 seating configuration and fact that police use them) ST (love the factory performance, 3 litter engine, the black treatments, MPGs when you drive calm and all the features offered at the price point). It really ticked all the boxes, which mattered for me.

X5 was a close second but what I want was the M and it was too experience. Everyone knows they lie about the power numbers. So even if you get the lower trim to match with ST sticker and performance, you will end up with a much bigger monthly payment.

Durango was third. May be the test drive and dealership experience, didn't do it for me. Still love it, and would buy it only for the supercharger whine and exhaust sounds. But money was a constrain for the top engine trims. The fact that dinosaur was going be extinct soon, didn't gave much confidence.

If I have to buy again now, pilot trailsport and telluride X-pro will be in the shortlist for how they looks, cx90 and X90 for the phev powertrain, X5M and MDX type S for the overall package, Durango for the sound, Grand Highlander for the newness and finally go and buy a 2 door bronco (because I already have the ST )

 

[Kermit1320]

Congrats on your purchase and welcome.

The cost is about $850 but this is what you are looking for depending on where you live. Not legal in some states.

https://www.tunedbyzfgracing.com/product-page/2020-21-ford-explorer-3-0l-zfg-racing-custom-tune

Thank you for this! I will start doing more research but assume it’s safe to assume you have to reflash to the factory tune for warranty service. Does Ford have a way to detect the PCM has been previously flashed, even with the stock tune in place?

 

[Cajun Heat]

Thank you for this! I will start doing more research but assume it’s safe to assume you have to reflash to the factory tune for warranty service. Does Ford have a way to detect the PCM has been previously flashed, even with the stock tune in place?

Once you go with any tune, the dealer will be able to detect any reflashing. The only safe way to keep your warrant intact is going with the Ford tune that maintains your factory warranty. The Ford tune will not give you the HP gains of a custom tune like ZFG, but you will be able to notice the difference to stock. Pick what makes you feel and sleep better at night.

 

[Kermit1320]

Once you go with any tune, the dealer will be able to detect any reflashing. The only safe way to keep your warrant intact is going with the Ford tune that maintains your factory warranty. The Ford tune will not give you the HP gains of a custom tune like ZFG, but you will be able to notice the difference to stock. Pick what makes you feel and sleep better at night.

Yup, always a balance between (more) performance and warranty.

Can you better explain the bolded part? Is the "Ford tune" still something that ZFG does that changes shift points in the engine and/or transmission so it manages the HP & torque differently and provides a more responsive ride? Is the "Ford tune" something that is still a separate tune just very mellow, or is the original stock tune modified? And then you change some settings back when you take in for service? And how would Ford not be able to tell if you tweaked their stock tune?

Not trying to be dumb here. Just making sure I understand properly. Maybe a call to ZFG is in order.

By the way, on my computer now (vs phone) and noticed your mod list in your signature. I noticed you have the ZFG 93 tune + Whipple intercooler, NGK's, CAI and exhaust. What kind of a quarter mile are you pulling with those? Also did the rear sway bar and strut tower brace really enhance handling considerably?

 

[Cajun Heat]

Yup, always a balance between (more) performance and warranty.

Can you better explain the bolded part? Is the "Ford tune" still something that ZFG does that changes shift points in the engine and/or transmission so it manages the HP & torque differently and provides a more responsive ride? Is the "Ford tune" something that is still a separate tune just very mellow, or is the original stock tune modified? And then you change some settings back when you take in for service? And how would Ford not be able to tell if you tweaked their stock tune?

Not trying to be dumb here. Just making sure I understand properly. Maybe a call to ZFG is in order.

By the way, on my computer now (vs phone) and noticed your mod list in your signature. I noticed you have the ZFG 93 tune + Whipple intercooler, NGK's, CAI and exhaust. What kind of a quarter mile are you pulling with those? Also did the rear sway bar and strut tower brace really enhance handling considerably?

Ford offers a tune that you would buy directly from Ford which is covered under a Ford warranty and more of a mellow tune. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9603-EX30

ZFG is a custom tuning company that is not associated with Ford. The tunes that they do can be from mild to very aggressive based on the fuel type and modifications you have done.

I am probably in the low 4's 0-60 and don't know my 1/4 mile times. I picked the 93 octane tune because of the engine mods and this is a daily driver and will never go to the track. The rear sway bar did make a difference in body roll but the strut tower brace was just aesthetics. Didn't notice any difference in body stiffness.

There is a ton of information on this forum.

 

[Kermit1320]

Ford offers a tune that you would buy directly from Ford which is covered under a Ford warranty and more of a mellow tune. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9603-EX30

ZFG is a custom tuning company that is not associated with Ford. The tunes that they do can be from mild to very aggressive based on the fuel type and modifications you have done.

I am probably in the low 4's 0-60 and don't know my 1/4 mile times. I picked the 93 octane tune because of the engine mods and this is a daily driver and will never go to the track. The rear sway bar did make a difference in body roll but the strut tower brace was just aesthetics. Didn't notice any difference in body stiffness.

There is a ton of information on this forum.

Okay, the tune thing makes more sense to me now. I wasn't aware Ford Performance was offering their own tunes. While the HP and torque gains seem minimal, it appears they also change shift points so I can see how it might make for a more responsive ride even if not crazy faster.

Also it looks like their $825 price includes the Procal 4 calibration tool/tuner. And it appears both the tune and Procal 4 is VIN locked to the specific vehicle. The FP site shows the Procal 4 as a $495 tool. Reading the ZFGR site, it appears they use different tuners for delivery and have no intentions of adding compatibility for other tuning devices. Are there other tuners that may use the Procal 4 unit so you get some future value out of it. Or is it essentially a throw away tool once you grow beyond the FP tune?

Good to know about that rear sway bar. I may try to get one installed while I'm deciding on the tunes.

This is technically the wife's daily driver, although she works from home. So it's a powder puff with < 2,500 miles right now. It's not the fastest out there, but it's faster than most in it's class and pretty respectable overall. It's a real joy to drive. Plus with AWD, it still gets around in crappy weather. Not looking for a dedicated track car either, but will probably make a few passes to gauge results as I tweak it.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

Kermit, I put a ZFG 93 tune on mine and a whipple I/C and with E30 in the tank, I pulled off a 12.09@112.30 mph and a 3.75 0-60 No other mods, factory CAI, factory exhaust and downpipes.

 

[Forddealz]

The second reason why I went with ST is the finance offers (close to 0% APR while others were 5 to 7) and discounts that brings down overall price (I got it 5k below sticker over a month of negotiations).

Primary is that I love Ford (the way they drive and never had issues in the other Ford I still own) Explorer (exterior design, 6 seating configuration and fact that police use them) ST (love the factory performance, 3 litter engine, the black treatments, MPGs when you drive calm and all the features offered at the price point). It really ticked all the boxes, which mattered for me.

X5 was a close second but what I want was the M and it was too experience. Everyone knows they lie about the power numbers. So even if you get the lower trim to match with ST sticker and performance, you will end up with a much bigger monthly payment.

Durango was third. May be the test drive and dealership experience, didn't do it for me. Still love it, and would buy it only for the supercharger whine and exhaust sounds. But money was a constrain for the top engine trims. The fact that dinosaur was going be extinct soon, didn't gave much confidence.

If I have to buy again now, pilot trailsport and telluride X-pro will be in the shortlist for how they looks, cx90 and X90 for the phev powertrain, X5M and MDX type S for the overall package, Durango for the sound, Grand Highlander for the newness and finally go and buy a 2 door bronco (because I already have the ST )

The new X5 is just as strong as the ST as they just upgraded that engine. The interior is nicer and now with that upgraded i drive or whatever they have there. Seats are much more comfortable in the X5. Msport package X5 40I came out to be 15K more then ST. Is it worth it, who knows.

 

[CareerFiremanGuy]

Okay, time for an update ...

Now including my ST's acceleration results with the Ford Performance Tune to this list of VEHICLES WITH A WARRANTY.

As expected, the ST jumps ahead even further!

Ford Explorer ST
Base Price: $50,700 ($50,000 ST + $700 FP tune)
430 hp 3.0L V6
0-60 mph: 4.7 sec
¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 103 mph

Chevrolet Tahoe RST
Base Price $71,015
420 hp 6.2L V8
0-60 mph: 5.7 sec
¼-mile: 14.1 sec @ 100 mph

Dodge Durango R/T AWD
Base Price $55,240
360 hp 5.7L V8
0-60 mph: 6.2 sec
¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 95 mph

Dodge Durango SRT 392
Base Price $72,715
475 HP 6.4L V8
0-60 mph: 4.1 sec
1/4 mile: 12.7 sec @ 106 mph

Acura MDX Type-S
Base Price $67,850
355 hp 3.0L V6
0-60 mph: 5.5 sec
1/4-Mile: 14.1 sec @ 100 mph

Audi SQ5
Base Price $56,500
349 hp 3.0L V6
0-60 mph: 4.7 sec
¼-mile: 13.4 sec @ 103 mph

BMW X5 xDrive40i
Base Price $67,500
335 hp (updated 3.0L V6 = 375 hp)
0-60 mph: 4.9 sec (updated 375 hp model not yet tested)
¼-mile: 13.6 sec @ 101 mph (updated 375 hp model not yet tested)