Stock vs Big Brake Kit

[Ldstang50]

One of the great things about my new wheels is seeing the brakes; the downside, they’re puny. The upside, I get (need) bigger brakes!

Through Lethal Performance, I ordered the Superforged BBK. The brakes arrived yesterday, and they are MASSIVE: 405mm (16”) front, 385mm (15”) rear. They’re slotted, two-piece design; aluminum hats with iron rotors.

When people upgrade to bigger brakes, you always hear them tell you how much their braking improved; that it stops shorter and has less fade. Thing is, nearly no one provides any quantitive data. They assume because they have bigger brakes, they automatically stop better. Sometimes, that’s not the case. Larger rotors dissipate heat better and don’t overheat as easily. The two-piece design is lighter, and prevents heat dissipation to the wheels.

The biggest thing to improve braking is your brake pads. You can upgrade to bigger brakes, but if the new pads are not as aggressive as the old pads, your braking can actually get worse. So before I installed the BBK, I decided to test the car in its current form.

I used a Draggy to measure distance and time to stop from 60mph. Draggy doesn’t offer a different speed to test from, but Motortrend test cars from 60mph, vs 70mph like Car and Driver. This meant I can compare braking performance to various cars

My biggest mod to improve braking over stock is my upgrade to wider, stickier tires. I currently run 315/40/22 Michelin Pilot PS4 SUV ZP on 22x10.5 Vossen HF5. They’re 40mm wider than stock. Besides being wider, they’re also considerable softer, 300tw vs 500tw. I also have lowering springs. They provide little improvement to braking performance.

Stock the ST needs 114ft to stop from 60mph.

I did 13 runs. I didn’t do anymore as the pedal travel started getting a bit long. My current setup has me stopping from 60mph in an average of 2.48sec, covering 107ft. A significant improvement. For comparison sake, below are stopping distances compared to a variety of cars:



2020 GT500 w/o trackpack: 100ft
GT350: 100-102ft
2016 Mustang GT: 109ft
Honda Accord: 114ft
Corolla GR: 110ft
Focus RS: 104ft
Civic Type-R: 104ft
Hellcat Challenger: 109ft

It’s now better than some decent performance cars.

I’m writing this from my computer, so I can’t post the Draggy results. You’ll just have to take my word. If I have time, I’ll post some screenshots tomorrow.

In the meantime, enjoy pics of the new brakes before install.

 

[Ldstang50]

 

[2020FordRaptor]

Great write up! Superforged does great stuff. Some people will say 7 ft isn’t a lot, but that could be what saves you. Also what matters is the less brake fade, which is important also.

 

[Svttim]

excellent write up. Would be curious to see what different pads would do. The one difference between the ST and say, the GT350 (because I drive one) is the GT350 will go a long time before that fade starts. The other upside is the steering response will improve with the lighter rotating mass

 

[Cruising68]

Love the Superforged. I’m surprised in your 7ft improvement. I would have guessed better than that based on some of my high speed braking runs. I believe the Superforged brake pads are a compromise between performance dusting. I believe they sell an upgraded pad with a higher coefficient of friction and more dust.

When I was road racing my CTSV, running track pads eliminated the brake fade while I could get the Brembos to fade after a couple hard high speed stops with the original pads. I can get the Superforged to fade after little bit when they get really hot. Like after a series of 70mph hard stops. I would imagine you would get even better performance with a better pad but will have to put up with louder and dustier brakes.

I’ve got two plus years on my Superforged upgrade. I’m very happy with the performance of the current pads but if I were tracking the car, I would consider higher temp pads. About 30k on the brakes with virtually no rotor wear. I can barely catch the edge of the rotor with a finger nail.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ldstang50]

Draggy screenshots in-order of runs.

The road I tested on is 3lanes on both sides with a large grass median. Thereare designated u-turn turnoffs every mile or so. So all stops were performed on the same road, in either direction. I think I got 2 or 3 stops before turning around and repeating in the opposite direction. So disregard any “invalidated” runs.

My guess is the crown between lanes made the Draggy think slope changed.

First run net a distance of 111ft. Compared to every stop, it’s pretty clear cold rotors extended stopping distance

One thing to notice, the time to stop had nearly no effect on the stopping distance.

Every 10mph of braking took 0.40seconds, even on all but one “invalid” run. I thought this was a cool little nugget.

 

[Ldstang50]

Great write up! Superforged does great stuff. Some people will say 7 ft isn’t a lot, but that could be what saves you. Also what matters is the less brake fade, which is important also.

7ft is huge. That’s half a car length. Less brake fade is absolutely ideal for track cars, but I doubt many of us are thrashing these cars on a road course, my hat off to anyone who does.

I’m really curious how much more consistent the pedal will feel. Despite the pedal start feeling soft, braking distance was hardly effected. However, I’m almost certain that would not have been the case if I repeated the 10 additional times

 

[Ldstang50]

excellent write up. Would be curious to see what different pads would do. The one difference between the ST and say, the GT350 (because I drive one) is the GT350 will go a long time before that fade starts. The other upside is the steering response will improve with the lighter rotating mass

First, I’m massively envious of you having a GT350. I had a Boss Laguna Seca, which I loved. The GT350 is on the wish list for next track car.

Second, I’m glad to hear someone puts the car to good use. What tracks have you run with it?

Lastly, what pads are you running? I’m assuming a dedicated track pad??

 

[Ldstang50]

Love the Superforged. I’m surprised in your 7ft improvement. I would have guessed better than that based on some of my high speed braking runs. I believe the Superforged brake pads are a compromise between performance dusting. I believe they sell an upgraded pad with a higher coefficient of friction and more dust.

When I was road racing my CTSV, running track pads eliminated the brake fade while I could get the Brembos to fade after a couple hard high speed stops with the original pads. I can get the Superforged to fade after little bit when they get really hot. Like after a series of 70mph hard stops. I would imagine you would get even better performance with a better pad but will have to put up with louder and dustier brakes.

I’ve got two plus years on my Superforged upgrade. I’m very happy with the performance of the current pads but if I were tracking the car, I would consider higher temp pads. About 30k on the brakes with virtually no rotor wear. I can barely catch the edge of the rotor with a finger nail.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This round of tests was stock brakes on an upgraded tire. If I caused confusion, I apologize.

Truth be told, 114ft stock from an SUV is hugely impressive, and it honestly doesn’t leave a whole lot to improve on. (Truth be told, I didn’t look-up stock numbers until I began writing last night. So I didn’t know if it was any better)

I should have posted performance SUV numbers for better comparison…

X5M competition: 104ft (on the same Michelin tire I am on)
GL63 AMG: 104ft
RS Q8: 104ft (stickier Pirelli and Carbon Ceramic)
X5M50i: 119ft
GLE53: 108ft

It takes top-of-the-line M, AMG and RS models to out-brake an ST on upgraded tires. That’s highly impressive stuff

I’m not even sure distance will improve much unless the provided pads are more aggresive. I’m ok with a little dust, the Vossen are easy to clean with their gloss finish

On that note, where can I order Superforged pads?

 

[Cruising68]

This round of tests was stock brakes on an upgraded tire. If I caused confusion, I apologize.

Truth be told, 114ft stock from an SUV is hugely impressive, and it honestly doesn’t leave a whole lot to improve on. (Truth be told, I didn’t look-up stock numbers until I began writing last night. So I didn’t know if it was any better)

I should have posted performance SUV numbers for better comparison…

X5M competition: 104ft (on the same Michelin tire I am on)
GL63 AMG: 104ft
RS Q8: 104ft (stickier Pirelli and Carbon Ceramic)
X5M50i: 119ft
GLE53: 108ft

It takes top-of-the-line M, AMG and RS models to out-brake an ST on upgraded tires. That’s highly impressive stuff

I’m not even sure distance will improve much unless the provided pads are more aggresive. I’m ok with a little dust, the Vossen are easy to clean with their gloss finish

On that note, where can I order Superforged pads?

No worries. I agree with you on the stock street pack brakes. Best stock brakes I’ve had on any vehicle besides my ctsv. I was surprised at your improvement compared to my butt dyno. I can damn near put my forehead into the windshield. Assuming you did a full bleeding of the new brakes. My pedal feels firmer than stock but with great ability to modulate the brakes. Might have to do some draggy runs. Tires will make a difference too. I have Pilot Sport AS in 295/40R22.

Regarding pads. Bruce at Superforged. I reached out to him when I first got mine a couple years ago.and he was going to have rotors minus hubs and another pad option soon. I did find some Hawk pads that fit the fronts but never tried them as I am getting great wear and like the performance. I was thinking about getting a full set of replacements on hand for the first brake job but at this point I might get over 100k with the wear I have at 30k.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[2020FordRaptor]

No worries. I agree with you on the stock street pack brakes. Best stock brakes I’ve had on any vehicle besides my ctsv. I was surprised at your improvement compared to my butt dyno. I can damn near put my forehead into the windshield. Assuming you did a full bleeding of the new brakes. My pedal feels firmer than stock but with great ability to modulate the brakes. Might have to do some draggy runs. Tires will make a difference too. I have Pilot Sport AS in 295/40R22.

Regarding pads. Bruce at Superforged. I reached out to him when I first got mine a couple years ago.and he was going to have rotors minus hubs and another pad option soon. I did find some Hawk pads that fit the fronts but never tried them as I am getting great wear and like the performance. I was thinking about getting a full set of replacements on hand for the first brake job but at this point I might get over 100k with the wear I have at 30k.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I third stock brakes being pretty good. I was surprised how well they did when stomped on hard. Still a noticeable brake fade on the ST Experience autocross thing, but one of the best stock setups I’ve had.

 

[Cruising68]

I third stock brakes being pretty good. I was surprised how well they did when stomped on hard. Still a noticeable brake fade on the ST Experience autocross thing, but one of the best stock setups I’ve had.

Hard to avoid fade without a big multi piston caliper and high temp pads. Sure the stock pads fades some but it’s a fantastic combination for daily driving imo. Everything is a compromise with brakes. Best stopping, lowest dusting, quietness, and temp resistance. It’s all a compromise. My track pads were awesome but they were noisy as hell, coated my wheels in brake dust after a session, and didn’t work until up to temp. The Explorer Street packs are a great compromise for a daily driver that performs very well.

Funny story about track pads. Was changing wheels, tires, and brake pads for a track weekend. Got all done and I had to run out quick to get something. Got on highway for one exit. Hit the exit for some high speed fun forgetting I had cold track pads. Exit sweeps 90 degrees right so I hit the brakes hard. Find out I have 25% braking due to being ice cold. Stomped on them like my life depended on it and barely avoided going off road. Definitely a change the undies event


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Svttim]

First, I’m massively envious of you having a GT350. I had a Boss Laguna Seca, which I loved. The GT350 is on the wish list for next track car.

Second, I’m glad to hear someone puts the car to good use. What tracks have you run with it?

Lastly, what pads are you running? I’m assuming a dedicated track pad??

I have run Road America, VIR, Gingerman, Blackhawk Farms, Spring Mountain. Im using Padgid right now but the 350s stock pads are also up to the task, Just dont last as long.

 

[Ldstang50]

Such a sexy, sexy car. And it makes one of, if not the best, vocal soundtrack

What have you run for times at Road America and VIR?

I've run both

RA in NC Miata: 2:33.8
VIR in NC Miata: 2:04.7, stock Nismo 350z 2:08.xx

 

[Ldstang50]

Hard to avoid fade without a big multi piston caliper and high temp pads. Sure the stock pads fades some but it’s a fantastic combination for daily driving imo. Everything is a compromise with brakes. Best stopping, lowest dusting, quietness, and temp resistance. It’s all a compromise. My track pads were awesome but they were noisy as hell, coated my wheels in brake dust after a session, and didn’t work until up to temp. The Explorer Street packs are a great compromise for a daily driver that performs very well.

Funny story about track pads. Was changing wheels, tires, and brake pads for a track weekend. Got all done and I had to run out quick to get something. Got on highway for one exit. Hit the exit for some high speed fun forgetting I had cold track pads. Exit sweeps 90 degrees right so I hit the brakes hard. Find out I have 25% braking due to being ice cold. Stomped on them like my life depended on it and barely avoided going off road. Definitely a change the undies event


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ROFL. I only laugh because 1) you survived and 2) if you've ever done trackdays, you've done something boneheaded


When you consider the car only has 2-piston calipers w/pistons on one side, it brakes something phenomenal. There isn't much to improve on more than what tires did.

How was the ST school?

 

[enphor]

Great writeup and testing OP thank you for your efforts!

I've been loving the superforged BBK. Out on empty country roads turn to turn the stockers would heat up too quickly, the BBK solved that issue for me. Granted I'm running the "street" ceramic pads which aren't track pads by any means. To get the full capability of the system a more aggressive metal pad would be in order. As mentioned then you would have to deal with the detriments of noise, dust, and more wear on the rotors. So far the ceramics are great for me. I may try Hawk LTS, a ferro-carbon blend designed for trucks and suv's as my next set.