Tune Level

[Sarge101st]

I don't want to go down the extreme rabbit hole of performance upgrades with my '20 ST but want to dust some of the slightly modified trucks cars on the highway from time to time. My vehicle is mostly stock currently.

2020 ST
AEM Dryflow Drop In Air Filter
Michelin PSAS4 275/45/21"
95K miles

I'm about to replace the plugs with NGK Rutheniums. I'm thinking of running the ZFG Stage 1 package with intercooler and 91 octane tune. I thought I found a video on YT where the ST owner was running at about 4 seconds flat zero to 60 after a stage 1 ZFG package with 93 tune only. I watched the Whipple stage 1 video on YT again though and it looked like they only improved from about 5.5 seconds to 4.5/4.8 zero to 60 times. Is this due to Adam's tune versus the Whipple tune or are both videos misrepresentations of expected gains?

I'd love to have a high 3 second to 4 second zero to 60 ST without over-stressing the transmission. I was hoping to limit it to the intercooler and 91 tune but should I consider more? I was considering the AFE Momentum intake along with the intercooler and tune but beyond that we're hitting the limit of my install knowledge/capability. I don't have the tools or lift to do an exhaust swap and I don't really want the vehicle loud at all as I'll be turning off the fake engine sound for the interior with FORSCAN too. I don't currently have Dragy so I don't have my vehicle's times and I'm not looking to have specific time goals. Just wondering what is the easiest (bolt on,) way to get to the high 3 second mark that doesn't feel like it's going to kill the transmission?

 

[UNBROKEN]

The 91 tune will get you right there once you learn to launch the car. The intercooler will let you do it repeatedly. Throw in some E85 for an E30 mix and you’ll dip into the 11’s with probably 3.80’s 0-60…give or take a hair.

 

[Sarge101st]

The 91 tune will get you right there once you learn to launch the car. The intercooler will let you do it repeatedly. Throw in some E85 for an E30 mix and you’ll dip into the 11’s with probably 3.80’s 0-60…give or take a hair.

That's so crazy to me that this vehicle has that potential that can be unlocked like that. The E30/E50 tune is a no-brainer too since I plan on running 91 octane in the vehicle permanently.

 

[Sarge101st]

The 91 tune will get you right there once you learn to launch the car. The intercooler will let you do it repeatedly. Throw in some E85 for an E30 mix and you’ll dip into the 11’s with probably 3.80’s 0-60…give or take a hair.

Any idea what adding the AFE intake would do to the mix? If it shaved enough off it may be worth the $600 and install time.

 

[MikeyP]

Any idea what adding the AFE intake would do to the mix? If it shaved enough off it may be worth the $600 and install time.

Adam at ZFG did a flow analysis some time ago, and yes the AFE outflows the stock, and the S&B outflows the AFE. However, on a 91 tune you might not be pushing enough boost to make any power difference. I swapped to an AFE because I liked the looks better.

 

[Sarge101st]

Adam at ZFG did a flow analysis some time ago, and yes the AFE outflows the stock, and the S&B outflows the AFE. However, on a 91 tune you might not be pushing enough boost to make any power difference. I swapped to an AFE because I liked the looks better.

That's kind of how I thought it would go down. I know the ideal scenario is the full intake/pipes/exhaust overhaul that'll net significant gains in the tune. Just don't think I want to venture too far down that path. I need to swap out my brakes soon too so I'm already in for a bit $

 

[UNBROKEN]

A CAI and cat-back exhaust will net you very small gains…maybe 10 combined on a good day. High flow downpipes will get you 20-25 and are cheaper than a cat-back and your car won’t be loud.

 

[MikeyP]

That's kind of how I thought it would go down. I know the ideal scenario is the full intake/pipes/exhaust overhaul that'll net significant gains in the tune. Just don't think I want to venture too far down that path. I need to swap out my brakes soon too so I'm already in for a bit $

Like Unbroken said, the best bang-for-your-buck mod will be downpipes. They will actually gain some power. An intercooler will allow you to keep that power for more than one pull. And a tune from ZFG (HPTuner), Goosetuned (Cobb), or TunePlus (Cobb) will get you some great power. CAI, exhaust, hot/cold side pipes are just for funsies.

 

[Sarge101st]

Didn't think about doing the downpipes by themselves. I'll have to start considering that instead.

 

[Suprawill1]

Didn't think about doing the downpipes by themselves. I'll have to start considering that instead.

I've done only the 93 DMS tune and intercooler. With over 300lbs of equipment in the cargo area, dragy showed me a 4.2 0-60. I'm pretty sure without the equipment, it would touch on 3's. That's with no added ethanol. Being as it's hard to find consistent percentage of it in this area, I'll probably go with the next good bang for the buck and install stage 5 turbos. Just to look at the vehicle, no one would be the wiser.

 

[Sarge101st]

I've done only the 93 DMS tune and intercooler. With over 300lbs of equipment in the cargo area, dragy showed me a 4.2 0-60. I'm pretty sure without the equipment, it would touch on 3's. That's with no added ethanol. Being as it's hard to find consistent percentage of it in this area, I'll probably go with the next good bang for the buck and install stage 5 turbos. Just to look at the vehicle, no one would be the wiser.

That's still so crazy to me that we can pull those levels of improvement with just a proper tune and intercooler swap. I'm excited.

 

[Suprawill1]

That's still so crazy to me that we can pull those levels of improvement with just a proper tune and intercooler swap. I'm excited.

Agreed! Some of these guys are running 10s with the turbo upgrade but 11s are reachable with just the 93 DMS and IC. Technology has come a long way!

 

[Novagunner]

Didn't think about doing the downpipes by themselves. I'll have to start considering that instead.

I’m in the camp of not doing DP on their own. I look at $ per hp and it is almost $100 per hp if you get a shop to install. Tune and intercooler is $2000 but gets you ~100hp - $20 per hp.

it kinda sucks that the cost per hp goes way up after tune/intercooler.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

On my previous 21, all I did was a ZFG 93 tune and a whipple I/C, stock down pipes, stock intake, stock exhaust. With an E30 mix in the tank on a cold dry November day I ran a 12.09@112.30 and a 3.75 0-60 on a dragy.

Granted I had mineshaft air with a D/A of negative 700' but with a good tune low 12's-high 11's and a 3.7-3.8 0-60 are possible.

 

[Sarge101st]

I’m in the camp of not doing DP on their own. I look at $ per hp and it is almost $100 per hp if you get a shop to install. Tune and intercooler is $2000 but gets you ~100hp - $20 per hp.

it kinda sucks that the cost per hp goes way up after tune/intercooler.

True but when you consider the gains already for the total $ package. The reason this vehicle is so impressive is just how cheap it is to enter that 3 second territory. The only car I've ever made performance enhancements to was a 1987 Grand National. Back in the day it was a lot harder to pull these kinds of numbers out of those old g-body's. Don't get me wrong the GN was no slouch for it's time but to get that car into the 3 second territory you were doing more than a tune and intercooler swap.

 

[CoHPhasor]

I’m in the camp of not doing DP on their own. I look at $ per hp and it is almost $100 per hp if you get a shop to install. Tune and intercooler is $2000 but gets you ~100hp - $20 per hp.

it kinda sucks that the cost per hp goes way up after tune/intercooler.

Cry everyone who has a naturally aspirated vehicle a river.
The gains from turbo engines like in the ST get for such little money is insane.
Honestly we have an expensive FMIC, but if you dont mind the fact that the OEM one heatsoaks pretty quickly, the HP gains are super cheap.
(An N/A vehicle needs cams/heads, porting/polishing, intake/exhaust (including headers), to even approach a turbo's easiest gains.)

ps, When you talk about the downpipes, the value proposition goes way up if you do all the intake. It is a stacking benefit, as turbos work on pressure differentials to spin up and create boost. Ergo, if you inhale a lot, you need to exhale a lot, and the downpipes make the biggest difference, since they are directly after the turbos.

 

[Sarge101st]

Cry everyone who has a naturally aspirated vehicle a river.
The gains from turbo engines like in the ST get for such little money is insane.
Honestly we have an expensive FMIC, but is you dont mind the fact that the OEM one heatsoaks pretty quickly, the HP gains are super cheap.
(A N/A vehicle needs cams/heads, porting/polishing, intake/exhaust (including headers), to even approach a turbo's easiest gains.)

ps, When you talk about the downpipes, the value proposition goes way up if you do all the intake. It is a stacking benefit, as turbos work on pressure differentials to spin up and create boost. Ergo, if you inhale a lot, you need to exhale a lot, and the downpipes make the biggest difference, since they are directly after the turbos.

Exactly my thoughts too. We're super lucky to have a vehicle this capable and at this price point. I know the full breathing package is the route to take but like I mentioned in the beginning, I'm not ready to go down the rabbit hole again. As tempting as it is, it always ends up like every home improvement DIY project. Add 50% in time and 100% in cost to the job to finish.

 

[CoHPhasor]

Exactly my thoughts too. We're super lucky to have a vehicle this capable and at this price point. I know the full breathing package is the route to take but like I mentioned in the beginning, I'm not ready to go down the rabbit hole again. As tempting as it is, it always ends up like every home improvement DIY project. Add 50% in time and 100% in cost to the job to finish.

Luckily you can do it piecemeal.
If you are going to do intake I would say the best bang for the buck is the IC. (Which is why Whipple does an IC/tune combo)
Charge pipes can be changed later with very few tools/no bumper removal, and you can choose to do just cold side first, and add hot side later/not at all.
The airbox can be changed later, some people opt for only a drop-in filter replacement for easy-er breathability, or you can do a whole airbox, but either way it just adds to the IC, and is not re-working.
The downpipes are involved, but you can have a muffler shop do it fairly cheaply.

ps, I would advise you to get one of the diff stiffeners as well if you are going to start dipping into extra horses/heavy launching, especially if you have a 3-bolt (1 bolt in the rear) differential. Again, they seem to be straight-forward.
To be clear - a Cat-back exhaust can be helpful, but there is absolutely no greater benefit than making the downpipes high-flow - the more easily exhaust gas can move away from the turbo, the better.

 

[Sarge101st]

Luckily you can do it piecemeal.
If you are going to do intake I would say the best bang for the buck is the IC. (Which is why Whipple does an IC/tune combo)
Charge pipes can be changed later with very few tools/no bumper removal, and you can choose to do just cold side first, and add hot side later/not at all.
The airbox can be changed later, some people opt for only a drop-in filter replacement for easy-er breathability, or you can do a whole airbox, but either way it just adds to the IC, and is not re-working.
The downpipes are involved, but you can have a muffler shop do it fairly cheaply.

ps, I would advise you to get one of the diff stiffeners as well if you are going to start dipping into extra horses/heavy launching, especially if you have a 3-bolt (1 bolt in the rear) differential. Again, they seem to be straight-forward.
To be clear - a Cat-back exhaust can be helpful, but there is absolutely no greater benefit than making the downpipes high-flow - the more easily exhaust gas can move away from the turbo, the better.

Confirmed my 2020 ST had the dual bolts at the rear differential. That was going to be the first thing I fixed if it had a single bolt. I have the AEM dry flow drop in filter now and I think I'll stick with that. The tune and IC will probably be all I do to the vehicle.

I have an appointment next week to fix my transmission. I believe the parking pawl solenoid is shot as the vehicle rolls and grinds after being put in park and shutting off the ignition. I'm hesitant to stress the transmission any further than the tune and IC.

 

[Suprawill1]

True but when you consider the gains already for the total $ package. The reason this vehicle is so impressive is just how cheap it is to enter that 3 second territory. The only car I've ever made performance enhancements to was a 1987 Grand National. Back in the day it was a lot harder to pull these kinds of numbers out of those old g-body's. Don't get me wrong the GN was no slouch for it's time but to get that car into the 3 second territory you were doing more than a tune and intercooler swap.

That GN was the V6 bomb in its day! When I read the specs on it, I thought it was a misprint. Had a buddy who owned one take me for a ride and loved it.
As far as performance enhancements, the 3rd gen Supra I had was fairly easy to get into the 3 sec bracket but yes, these STs are much easier, especially with their weight point! The 10 spd tranny helps a lot with that.