Tuning for dummies

[UNBROKEN]

I will see if I can find the doc.

The issue is in general the EPA is following the same playbook they did when they went after those Diesel tuners that were doing the DPF deletes.

As a person who was involved with diesels at the time, this is NOT good. People lost their shops and were forced out of business because of it. They made bad decisions, and thought, “they will never come after me”.

The other issue, is we have ST vendors moving forward with Catless options and advertising them. That is like turning on the bright light and saying look at me! Any tuner tuning a vehicle without Cats that drives on the Street is illegal, and always has been.

Many tuners and companies are rethinking their tuning and process. Smaller shops have to be WAY more careful. One fine and they are done.

This is not going away...not anytime soon.


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They hit gas shops pretty hard about the same time. SCT got hit really hard and made some changes in the name of self preservation.
I helped start one of the biggest high performance diesel forums out there years ago...I was heavily into diesel performance stuff...we tried like hell to talk sense into people but nobody listened...then came the EPA. I bailed on diesels...wasn’t worth the cost anymore. They’ve just about beat that horse to death so you can bet they’re focused hard on gas stuff now.

 

[eec78]

Same here. Just installed mine this past wknd. Im super disappointed.

I had been in touch with him about doing my RS and ST; just got everything installed on my RS and was just about done with the ST. He messaged that he is pausing new clients - I hope this isn’t long term - would be REALLY disappointing

 

[UNBROKEN]

My guess is the tuners just need a bit to digest whatever new regulations are being thrown at them so they can get a plan together to stay in business but be in compliance too. I have friends that got high 6-low 7 figure fines from the EPA for the diesel stuff. Can’t blame these guys one bit for being careful.
For all the guys wanting catless downpipes...y’all better hope the defoulers work because the tuners aren’t gonna touch you with a 10’ pole.

 

[LokiWolf]

My guess is the tuners just need a bit to digest whatever new regulations are being thrown at them so they can get a plan together to stay in business but be in compliance too. I have friends that got high 6-low 7 figure fines from the EPA for the diesel stuff. Can’t blame these guys one bit for being careful.
For all the guys wanting catless downpipes...y’all better hope the defoulers work because the tuners aren’t gonna touch you with a 10’ pole.

I had completely forgot about SCT...

Exactly on all accounts. I am guessing some of those were the same people.

I was so happy to have a PreDPF Truck.

Get a clue people...Catless is not worth the drama, and you are not helping.


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[zdubyadubya]

I had completely forgot about SCT...

Exactly on all accounts. I am guessing some of those were the same people.

I was so happy to have a PreDPF Truck.

Get a clue people...Catless is not worth the drama, and you are not helping.


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Same here. I am NEVER getting rid of my 12V. 800lb/ft is plenty and as long as I keep taking care of it, it will last forever.

This a million times. I somewhat get some of the diesel stuff (I in no way condone coal rolling--my 12V p-pump is tuned perfectly and burns CLEAN), as feeding soot back through the intake probably isn't the best thing for an engine... but there are zero excuses for deleting cats on a on-road car in today's world of high flow cats and efficient exhaust systems.

 

[UNBROKEN]

Some light reading.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/epa...749aZ0G6qxPNrsvDjAliiOUcyOzwk2RV9Rum59LeDvmYc

 

[zdubyadubya]

Some light reading.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/epa...749aZ0G6qxPNrsvDjAliiOUcyOzwk2RV9Rum59LeDvmYc

Reading between the lines, he MIGHT need to have exhaust gas readings for each unique tune file on hand in case of a site inspection. That definitely puts alot of strain on the custom tuners and favors the canned tune guys like PBD. He might need to build sets of canned tunes and verify those individually. Like for each EACH octante he could have pre-built tunes for: stock, stock+filter+exhaust (stage 1), stock+intercooler+intake+exhaust (stage 2), etc. etc. Either way you end up with alot of permutations really quickly. The only way he could continue doing custom would be if the client brought him the truck and they pulled emission readings after the tune.

 

[LokiWolf]

Reading between the lines, he MIGHT need to have exhaust gas readings for each unique tune file on hand in case of a site inspection. That definitely puts alot of strain on the custom tuners and favors the canned tune guys like PBD. He might need to build sets of canned tunes and verify those individually. Like for each EACH octante he could have pre-built tunes for: stock, stock+filter+exhaust (stage 1), stock+intercooler+intake+exhaust (stage 2), etc. etc. Either way you end up with alot of permutations really quickly. The only way he could continue doing custom would be if the client brought him the truck and they pulled emission readings after the tune.

Yep, actively working on it.


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[zdubyadubya]

Yep, actively working on it.


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If you guys want a second vehicle with a different combination of mods--happy to volunteer my truck and my time.

 

[MikeWolfe]

Well among all the speculation here FORD is releasing "TUNES" for the Explorer ST & The Bronco Q4 this year
an example of those available from Ford for now
2019-2020 RANGER ECOBOOST POWER PACK PERFORMANCE CALIBRATION (PRE-ORDER) | Ford Performance | Ford Performance Parts
2018-2020 MUSTANG ECOBOOST PERFORMANCE CALIBRATION| Part Details for M-9603-M4C | Ford Performance Parts
Has anyone checked with HP Tuners
They use the MPVI2 calibrator & are great to work with
Will customize your calibrations to fit your exact vehicle
They are the real experts when it comes to calibrations
HPTuners.com
Interesting info about the future here
Neural Network Trainer by HP Tuners – HPTuners

 

[LokiWolf]

Well among all the speculation here FORD is releasing "TUNES" for the Explorer ST & The Bronco Q4 this year
an example of those available from Ford for now
2019-2020 RANGER ECOBOOST POWER PACK PERFORMANCE CALIBRATION (PRE-ORDER) | Ford Performance | Ford Performance Parts
2018-2020 MUSTANG ECOBOOST PERFORMANCE CALIBRATION| Part Details for M-9603-M4C | Ford Performance Parts
Has anyone checked with HP Tuners
They use the MPVI2 calibrator & are great to work with
Will customize your calibrations to fit your exact vehicle
They are the real experts when it comes to calibrations
HPTuners.com
Interesting info about the future here
Neural Network Trainer by HP Tuners – HPTuners

HP Tuners writes ZERO tunes. They are a software and hardware provider that lets a Tuner like ZFG, 5Star, and PBD to write and deploy tunes to customers.

The Tune files the NGuage mentioned above actually uses come from the HPTuners software. If HPT doesn’t support a vehicle then NGuage can’t.


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[TriSum]

Has anyone used one of the JMS Boostmax products? Wondering how that might work for the OP since it doesn't write the ECU. I've never used one before, but it could be useful in his case. ???

 

[blaster9]

Dumb question but do stop/start cycles count as key cycles for purposes of reflashing before dealer visit?

 

[LokiWolf]

Dumb question but do stop/start cycles count as key cycles for purposes of reflashing before dealer visit?

They do not. It is key cycles. Basically everytime you would have turned the key on a key start vehicle...


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[LokiWolf]

Has anyone used one of the JMS Boostmax products? Wondering how that might work for the OP since it doesn't write the ECU. I've never used one before, but it could be useful in his case. ???

I used a BoostMax on my 15 EcoBoost Expedition for a bit. As far as plug in modules go, it did good. I used it and a PedalMax at the same time.

While a true customized tune is always better, this might be the future for most users... With new regulations and encrypted ECM’s already on the market...


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[TriSum]

I used a BoostMax on my 15 EcoBoost Expedition for a bit. As far as plug in modules go, it did good. I used it and a PedalMax at the same time.

While a true customized tune is always better, this might be the future for most users... With new regulations and encrypted ECM’s already on the market...

How did they work together? I would think the Boostmax would do what the pedal max does plus add boost. ??? Just curious.

 

[LokiWolf]

How did they work together? I would think the Boostmax would do what the pedal max does plus add boost. ??? Just curious.

Nope. PedalMax removes the throttle delay and makes the throttle mapping more aggressive.

BoostMax actually adds power.


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[eec78]

Does anyone know if PBD is also pausing on new customers as well?

 

[MikeWolfe]

I used a BoostMax on my 15 EcoBoost Expedition for a bit. As far as plug in modules go, it did good. I used it and a PedalMax at the same time.

While a true customized tune is always better, this might be the future for most users... With new regulations and encrypted ECM’s already on the market...

HP Tuners writes ZERO tunes. They are a software and hardware provider that lets a Tuner like ZFG, 5Star, and PBD to write and deploy tunes to customers.

The Tune files the NGuage mentioned above actually uses come from the HPTuners software. If HPT doesn’t support a vehicle then NGuage can’t.


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You are correct
Meant to include ZFG as the programmer using the HP TUNERS software & the HP MVPI2

 

[sadeen]

Does anyone know if PBD is also pausing on new customers as well?

Looks like tunes are still available for purchase on their site.