Reconsidering Explorer ST

[bluesnake01]

If you're playing the waiting game for something cheaper or newer, you're never going to get anything. Something will always come up.

Far as non sport models as powerful as the ST? Do you mean the Platinum and KR? If so, they are the more expensive higher trims with the 99.9% exact drivetrain, what you expect? lol Cheaper for Ford in the long run.


Durango Hellcat was a one year production vehicle and Hellcat engines are going out next year. So good luck getting a good price in 2-3 years.

 

[BlkGS]

Have you considered the new mdx s type? Looks really nice although a bit pricey.

I haven't seen one in person, but I did consider it. Tows less, is slower, costs more. Looks nice, but not for me.

Did more thinking about this all, and I keep coming back to "damn the ST is a great deal". A GC L Limited v6 loaded up with the black package and everything is 57k. That's with a sub 300hp v6. It does tow significantly more and have a significantly nicer interior, but it's also much slower and much less sporty. I think they're pretty comparable on size too. The ST I built out is 58k, to trade some luxury for a lot of sport.

That said, you can get jeeps for well under msrp, where the dealers I've talked with only order at msrp, though I've talked to one that matches the Ford 1k off for custom ordering but they have a 1k dealer fee vs a dealer with no fees, so it's kind of a wash. The dealer that matches the discount does throw in a lifetime warranty of unknown value or use though. It's also 3 hours away vs under an hour so there's that.

 

[BlkGS]

If you're playing the waiting game for something cheaper or newer, you're never going to get anything. Something will always come up.

Far as non sport models as powerful as the ST? Do you mean the Platinum and KR? If so, they are the more expensive higher trims with the 99.9% exact drivetrain, what you expect? lol Cheaper for Ford in the long run.


Durango Hellcat was a one year production vehicle and Hellcat engines are going out next year. So good luck getting a good price in 2-3 years.

If I ended up in a trackhawk vs a Durango Hellcat, that'd be fine. Trackhawk did fall in price before all the supply chain issues, so I suspect it will still happen, Hellcat going out of production or not. The escalade V will hopefully drag prices for Durango Hellcat down, and frankly I think the increasing number of electrified options that can match the Hellcat performance will too. At the end of the day, even good and rare cars depreciate, so we will see.

But yeah, I just wish the platinum and king ranch didn't have the same power output. I get it costs Ford nothing, but it sort of devalues the ST as a worthy competitor. It's bad enough that the Lincoln have the same power output. The ST should have 450hp if the rest will have 400, lol.

 

[bluesnake01]

If I ended up in a trackhawk vs a Durango Hellcat, that'd be fine. Trackhawk did fall in price before all the supply chain issues, so I suspect it will still happen, Hellcat going out of production or not. The escalade V will hopefully drag prices for Durango Hellcat down, and frankly I think the increasing number of electrified options that can match the Hellcat performance will too. At the end of the day, even good and rare cars depreciate, so we will see.

But yeah, I just wish the platinum and king ranch didn't have the same power output. I get it costs Ford nothing, but it sort of devalues the ST as a worthy competitor. It's bad enough that the Lincoln have the same power output. The ST should have 450hp if the rest will have 400, lol.

Oh no doubt they will drop in price but dont think it will be a nice drop in price either, im sure itll hold very well. The Escalade V is a totally different luxury competitor, IMO, the Durango Hellcat is (was?) the best 3rd row bang for buck SUV. Escalades are already 100+k as is, cant imagine where the V series will be.

I never understood the whole thing about similar power devaluing the ST. Its still a Sports SUV, still has a different suspension, slight different exterior looks, different better brake options, slight different final gear ratio, different interior materials, steering wheel, etc. I see it no different as a plain Mustang GT premium vs a Mustang GT with PPE1/2 packages. Was no different with the previous Sport and Platinum, both had same power, different suspensions and feels. Im actually bummed out the earlier Platinum didnt come with the same power lol Higher more expensive "luxury" trims should come with the best of both worlds.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

Since ford decided to up the power on the platinum/king ranch trims to 400 hp, they should bump up the ST to 450 or so. If aftermarket tuners can pull an extra 75 hp out of the 3.0 with a tune only, ford could easily get 50 hp out of them. Or, they could offer a ford racing tune, a better CAI, and the whipple IC that can be rolled into the purchase price and dealer installed.

 

[BlkGS]

Oh no doubt they will drop in price but dont think it will be a nice drop in price either, im sure itll hold very well. The Escalade V is a totally different luxury competitor, IMO, the Durango Hellcat is (was?) the best 3rd row bang for buck SUV. Escalades are already 100+k as is, cant imagine where the V series will be.

I never understood the whole thing about similar power devaluing the ST. Its still a Sports SUV, still has a different suspension, slight different exterior looks, different better brake options, slight different final gear ratio, different interior materials, steering wheel, etc. I see it no different as a plain Mustang GT premium vs a Mustang GT with PPE1/2 packages. Was no different with the previous Sport and Platinum, both had same power, different suspensions and feels. Im actually bummed out the earlier Platinum didnt come with the same power lol Higher more expensive "luxury" trims should come with the best of both worlds.

To me, I see the sports trim as having the luxuries with more power, like how srt works usually. Srt products offer all the luxury features of the top trim PLUS the power and sporty stuff.

I guess by that same logic dodge does it too, just with the r/t or 5.7 models. I think since Ford doesn't have an RS model above the ST, I expect more. And it's especially bad because we all know they could easily offer more with a simple tuning change.

I think the escalade V in the low 100s will conquest a lot of Hellcat Durango buyers at 100k. My take, if you can afford a 100k vehicle, you can afford a 140k one.

 

[hbalek]

To me, I see the sports trim as having the luxuries with more power, like how srt works usually. Srt products offer all the luxury features of the top trim PLUS the power and sporty stuff.

I guess by that same logic dodge does it too, just with the r/t or 5.7 models. I think since Ford doesn't have an RS model above the ST, I expect more. And it's especially bad because we all know they could easily offer more with a simple tuning change.

I think the escalade V in the low 100s will conquest a lot of Hellcat Durango buyers at 100k. My take, if you can afford a 100k vehicle, you can afford a 140k one.

I don't mean to be negative but I drive mine gently most of the time and had to have the transmission repaired at 25K miles. I'd hate to see what more power and torque would do to this 10 speed transmission!

 

[Cruising68]

I don't mean to be negative but I drive mine gently most of the time and had to have the transmission repaired at 25K miles. I'd hate to see what more power and torque would do to this 10 speed transmission!

Do you happen to know what they did to your trans? Replace it or do you have a work order of what they did? I'm curious to see what breaks in these tranny's.

 

[BlkGS]

I don't mean to be negative but I drive mine gently most of the time and had to have the transmission repaired at 25K miles. I'd hate to see what more power and torque would do to this 10 speed transmission!

That's weird. My understanding was this was the same 10nspeed GM uses behind the zl1 camaro, the 6.2L trucks and tahoes, etc. It should hold up to 400hp without issues...

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

The 10R80 used in the mustang and F150's are the same, the trans in our explorers is the 10R60, a light duty version of the 10R80.

 

[Cruising68]

The 10R80 used in the mustang and F150's are the same, the trans in our explorers is the 10R60, a light duty version of the 10R80.

This is correct. The 10R60 is a lighter duty and more importantly more fuel efficient transmission. I believe that it is actually an excellent transmission for any stock explorer since they seem to have the kinks worked out. The problem is it seems it's power limit is right at the stock power levels of the 3.0L biturbo. So those pushing significantly more horsepower are bound to see hard parts breaking eventually IMO. I wish there were more history of 10R60 hard part failures. Then again there are quite a few running much bigger HP numbers and theirs seem to be holding up well.

I've got a GM high power transmission guy and he hasn't seen enough 10R60's to make an assessment. On my GM Trans he knew exactly which hard parts I needed for my power levels. Wish I knew a Ford transmission guy like that.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

BTW, in the mustang world, the general consenus is the 10R80 can handle roughly 1000 hp in stock form. The 10r60 can handle more than the stock 400 hp our ST's get. If it couldn't, there would a lot of members with blown transmissions. Odds are that 99% of the bad 10R60's is due to bad programming and/or assembly errors, not hard part failure due to overpowering.

 

[hbalek]

Do you happen to know what they did to your trans? Replace it or do you have a work order of what they did? I'm curious to see what breaks in these tranny's.

They performed this TSB

https___www.fordservicecontent.com_Ford...ult.aspx_VIN=&version=5.0&environment= (nhtsa.gov)

I took it in Saturday afternoon 2/26 and got it back on Wednesday 3/9. I also had the rear camera replaced because the recall to reprogram the IPMB didn't solve the problem.

 

[Cruising68]

They performed this TSB

https___www.fordservicecontent.com_Ford...ult.aspx_VIN=&version=5.0&environment= (nhtsa.gov)

I took it in Saturday afternoon 2/26 and got it back on Wednesday 3/9. I also had the rear camera replaced because the recall to reprogram the IPMB didn't solve the problem.

Thanks for that. Sounds more like a part or installation defect which is better than a design defect IMO.

 

[hbalek]

Thanks for that. Sounds more like a part or installation defect which is better than a design defect IMO.

The tech said it's a common problem and he's done this repair several times before. He said the last one he did for a coworker who said it drove better than ever before.

BTW, I found this video which shows the fix for another known problem with the early model year's catalytic converter design.

(29) 2020 - 2021 Ford Explorer Catalytic Converter Update 21E11 - Nov 1 2018 - Sept 17 2020 - Build - YouTube

The new design is an improvement. Hopefully the transmission parts were upgraded too and will last longer.

 

[Cruising68]

The tech said it's a common problem and he's done this repair several times before. He said the last one he did for a coworker who said it drove better than ever before.

BTW, I found this video which shows the fix for another known problem with the early model year's catalytic converter design.

(29) 2020 - 2021 Ford Explorer Catalytic Converter Update 21E11 - Nov 1 2018 - Sept 17 2020 - Build - YouTube

The new design is an improvement. Hopefully the transmission parts were upgraded too and will last longer.

Yes, hoping changes made their way into my 22. Only 1300 miles but so far it shifts pretty darn nice and I haven't loaded my tune yet.

 

[BlkGS]

The 10R80 used in the mustang and F150's are the same, the trans in our explorers is the 10R60, a light duty version of the 10R80.

That's lame. Cost cutting at its finest. That's probably why the aviator towed more... It probably had the 10r80.

 

[dman624]

That's lame. Cost cutting at its finest. That's probably why the aviator towed more... It probably had the 10r80.

Correct. Aviator has the 10r80 from what I remember reading in other posts

 

[Vash610]

OK, weird question. Does a full size stroller(uppababy Vista to be specific) fit behind the 3rd row?

I have the Vista. It is possible but like you would have to take out any adapters and then it may fall out when you open the trunk kind of deal. If you needed to once in a while it's fine but for everyday or weekly use I would say no.

 

[bluesnake01]

OK, weird question. Does a full size stroller(uppababy Vista to be specific) fit behind the 3rd row?

We have a full jogger stroller and it fits behind the 3rd row. A bit snug, but it fits. If you want to add anything else though like a bag, itll barely fit one side but thats about it. Dont need to remove any adapters or anything either.

That's lame. Cost cutting at its finest. That's probably why the aviator towed more... It probably had the 10r80.

Interesting about that, the new Aviators are advertised with the same tow rating as the Explorer's with the tow class IV. Dont know if they change anything, highly doubt it but its been dropped down